The Footprint of Mussolini - TL

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Historyman 14

Historyman 14

....BY ALL THE GODS IN THE HEAVENS AND BELOW THE EARTH.

I post more, but all I say right now is one of the biggest issues is having finding someone in the UAR (What's left of it.) who can surrender to Italy and Israel, and the rest, and I'm not talking about blind Nasser in what's left of Egypt.
 
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Kaiser Frank

Historyman 14 said:
....BY ALL THE GODS IN THE HEAVENS AND BELOW THE EARTH.

I post more, but all I say right now is one of the biggest issues is having finding someone in the UAR (What's left of it.) who can surrender to Italy and Israel, and the rest, and I'm not talking a blind Nasser in what's left of Egypt.
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There will be no surrenders, only defeats
 

Bookmark1995

Banned
I don't think you've explored this @Sorairo , but what is life like in Italian Somalia, Libya, and Eritrea?

Are most of the natives there living under an apartheid system, or are they mostly happy under Italian rule?

Are they secretly grumbling under the Italian heel, or can they praise "Il Duce" with an honest smile?
 

Sorairo

Bookmark1995 said:
I don't think you've explored this @Sorairo , but what is life like in Italian Somalia, Libya, and Eritrea?

Are most of the natives there living under an apartheid system, or are they mostly happy under Italian rule?

Are they secretly grumbling under the Italian heel, or can they praise "Il Duce" with an honest smile?
Click to expand...

I've mentioned it a few times in the discussion, but not in the story itself. I'll do it again.

Libya: Best case scenario if you're a non-Italian native. 'You are considered the descendents of Rome and are thus one with Italy - this isn't colonisation, we're just putting you back in the team. Sure, you can be a Muslim! We love Muslims! It's just the darned Arabs that are ruining everything - but of course, you're Pheocenians!' Arabs who cling on to the old ways pick up their stuff and head off to the inner-desert - no one cares about them enough to really police them. If you're a Libyan Arab living in Tripoli, you're basically an Italian who goes to a Mosque - checking out girls with your Sicilian schoolmate, eating pizza from a Napoli immigrant's storefront and hanging out with the guys at the cinema.

Eritrea/Somalia: Tougher, especially the latter. This isn't a bromance - the two parties know they are not the same, and the Eritreans/Somalians very much know that the colonists aren't their best buddies. But at the same time? They basically go about their life as normal, and know that the real enemy, the Ethiopians, are most certainly under the heel.

Ethiopia: Miserable - the most racist settlers, the most exploitative companies, the most unforgiving (often Eritrean and Somalian) troops. You don't want to live here if you're a native Ethiopian (hell, you don't want to live in this place if you're a rich Italian). The Beta Israelis are given treatment about equal to the Eritreans - which has led to most of the other Ethiopians viewing them as collaborators, which has in turn forced the Beta Israelis to Mussolini.

Also, I didn't expect 126 replies since I made that last post. Thank you all for the attention, and I hope my conclusion to the war will likewise satisfy you.
 
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Hagre

Hagre

Sorairo said:
Ethiopia: Miserable - the most racist settlers, the most exploitative companies, the most unforgiving (often Eritrean and Somalian) troops. You don't want to live here if you're a native Ethiopian (hell, you don't want to live in this place if you're a rich Italian). The Beta Israelis are given treatment about equal to the Eritreans - which has led to most of the other Ethiopians viewing them as collaborators, which has in turn forced the Beta Israelis to Mussolini.
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Has Italy fucked over every ethnicity that aren't the Tigrayans/Hamasiens/Eritreans or Somalis?
 

Falecius

Bookmark1995 said:
I don't think you've explored this @Sorairo , but what is life like in Italian Somalia, Libya, and Eritrea?

Are most of the natives there living under an apartheid system, or are they mostly happy under Italian rule?

Are they secretly grumbling under the Italian heel, or can they praise "Il Duce" with an honest smile?
Click to expand...
In Libya, it's been stated the locals are mostly happy. I doubt it would be the case in Somalia. Eritirea is probably mixed bag, depending on ethnic group.
Apartheid is not going on in Libya. A segregation system was in place at least theoretically in all Italian East Africa, Somalia and Eritrea included, IOTL, actually a fairly harsh one, and I assume that this is also the case ITTL, though perhaps some mellowing has occurred here in the last decade.
(EDIT: apologies, I wrote this before seeing Sorairo's own response).
 

Bookmark1995

Banned
Falecius said:
I'd assume that the Oromo are likely to be treated marginally better than Amharas on average.
Click to expand...

For non-Italian peoples, I guess the social order (from top to bottom) is this:

Jews (albeit because the green alien who advises the Dear Leader says so)

Assimilated Slovenians

Albanians

Greeks

Libyans

Eritreans

Somalians

Oromo

Amhara
 

Falecius

Bookmark1995 said:
For non-Italian peoples, I guess the social order (from top to bottom) is this:

Jews (albeit because the green alien who advises the Dear Leader says so)

Assimilated Slovenians

Albanians

Greeks

Libyans

Eritreans

Somalians

Oromo

Amhara
Click to expand...
I do not think that either Native Libyans or, even more, Jews, are even considered as "non-Italian" in any meaningful way (it is indeed very incorrect - and, to a number of them, deeply offensive - to label Jews who live in Italy as "non-Italians" IOTL, despite the Fascist regime IRL saying so).
 

Bookmark1995

Banned
Falecius said:
I do not think that either Native Libyans or, even more, Jews, are even considered as "non-Italian" in any meaningful way (it is indeed very incorrect - and, to a number of them, deeply offensive - to label Jews who live in Italy as "non-Italians" IOTL, despite the Fascist regime IRL saying so).
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Sorry. I never meant to offend.

AnonymousSauce said:
And I suspect that the latter is more likely than the former.
Click to expand...

With all the social consequences that would bring...

Man, this TL turned out to be so, so depressing.
 

Falecius

AnonymousSauce said:
And I suspect that the latter is more likely than the former.
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I was unsure that any sort of Italian takeover of Egypt (which has a proud history of indipendence and a fierce national consciousness by this point) was possible. Also, Italy is not the only country with troops in Egypt, the British are there in force as well.
After the last update (I expected nukes indeed, but not this level of destruction) everything may be possible. However, all points to a very messy future for Egypt.
 

Deleted member 109224

Is Italian identity considered ethnic or civic here?

If Libyans are considered descendants of Rome, what are Slovenes? A kind of Illyrian?

Do the Italians consider the Eritreans Aksumites? Ergo, one of the three "civilized empires" (alongside Rome and Persia) of the ancient world?
 
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Dolan

Dolan

Banned
Jackson Lennock said:
Is Italian identity considered ethnic or civic here?

If Libyans are considered descendants of Rome, what are Slovenes? A kind of Illyrian?

Do the Italians consider the Eritreans Aksumites? Ergo, one of the three "civilized empires" (alongside Rome and Persia) of the ancient world?
Click to expand...
Pseudo-Ethnic and actually more leaning on Civic.

The Jews are Italians if they are good facists and being proud with their Italian Nationality.

Libyan Arabs? Do you meant Phoenicians? They aren't Arabs in Italian census, they aren't discriminated either...

Others are not that clear, but I guess there is a civic line pretending to be ethnic here and there.
 
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