The greatest enemy of the Irish Military... The Department of Finance.
Fictional inventory of modern airforces
- Thread starter Khanzeer
- Start date
The greatest enemy of the Irish Military... The Department of Finance.
Very diferent planes. You more or less can do a 23vsF-4, who are of the same generation, but the 21vF-4? The basic capabilty difernences are too great, imho.
As for just cost, it's 2 engines and 2 crew vs 1 one of each; that alone means much greater costs.
The Death of the PS.13 (Iroquois) engine was the worst part of the summarial termination... which hit the entire project.
This was (in essence) a redesign of Curtis-Wright's failed (J67) attempt at improving the early Olympus...IIRC?
Big kudos to the engineers at Orenda who got this project danger close to IOC.
A CF 104 with an Iroquois? A CF-101 with two (likely impossible) but still?
We'll never know. Unfortunately.
April 1st 2019
RAF Transport Command begins operating the new Bae Comet. Wing Commander Scott Tracy is the pilot in command
RAF Transport Command begins operating the new Bae Comet. Wing Commander Scott Tracy is the pilot in command
It is 60 cm longer and has 12 cm larger diameter than J79. How exactly does it fit in a Starfighter?
Easy
Get us Brits to do it
If we could fit a R/R Spey into a F-4 Phantom . . . you could easily do this.
Question is though would the cost of re-jigging the air frame make it uneconomical? or would the numbers bought with this engine make it economical?
Quite right, quite right. Does the Starfighter need yet more speed and acceleration? Does this make it a better on the deck, speed-o-heat bomb dropper?
The F104 was a very tight design. An airframe stretch would be doable but widening it to accomodate an engine 5" wider with higher airflow so larger intakes is essentially a new aircraft. It would make more sense to just start with a new sheet of paper.
Great video but if the output from the engines is really that "extensive", they won't half make a mess of the runway and any lights fitted to it, particularly when the thing rotates! The grass around the rotation point might be a smidge singed as well...
First Spey was slightly shorter than J79 though 11 cm larger in diameter so would be technically easier. Second are we talking the project for which Britain paid half a billion pounds at 3 million apiece for 170 aircraft? When the same number of baseline Phantoms would had cost about 200 million? 300 million overhead is enough for about 100 TSR.2 or 5 CVA-01s...
Riain
Banned
The Phantom saga isn't a cut and dry case of project cost blowout, although certainly it did cost more to Anglicise the Phantom than expected.
The two big and interrelated issues were the fixed price contract for the entire project and the devaluation of the pound. The fixed price contract meant that when the development costs increased this came off the production numbers because there wasn't any money to keep up with the cost increase. In addition on 18 November 1967 the Pound was devalued by 14%, accompanied by an increase in interest rates, which again due to the fixed price contract ate into the production numbers.
The end the 1966 decision to phase out carriers by 1975 meant the RN only needed 50 (plus options for 7) Phantoms, and the revision of this decision in 1968 to phase out carriers by 1972 meant that the RN only needed 28 Phantoms so 20 of their 48 were diverted to the RAF, obviating the need for the RAF to exercise their option for 21 extra aircraft.
Barry Bull
Donor
And the F4 is much more multi role than mig 23. One would also need to buy another ground attack aircraft if one buy mig 23.
Khanzeer
Banned
Mig23M can do A2G but it's very basic , for smaller airforces it's better to buy the Flogger H or BN.Decent performance, can carry R3S , R60 plus 6000 lb. Of weapons essentially a Mirage 5 like aircraft
F4 in strike role far eclipsed the flogger series it's like a Mig23M + su24
Khanzeer
Banned
Mikoyan Ye-8 never entered production
WI it was sold to other socialist nations for license production?
Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, poland producing this aircraft locally as a cheaper alternative to mig-23 ?
What kind of specifications and improvements could be expected in the 70s ?
Could it carry the BVR weapons of the later Su15TM [ R8m missiles I believe] ?
WI it was sold to other socialist nations for license production?
Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, poland producing this aircraft locally as a cheaper alternative to mig-23 ?
What kind of specifications and improvements could be expected in the 70s ?
Could it carry the BVR weapons of the later Su15TM [ R8m missiles I believe] ?
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Well, the downgrades for their export only "monkey models" were sometimes substantial enough that they may as well have have been completely different models.
I've stipulated before that for Yugoslavia and Romania something like that might've been an alternative to the Orao/IAR-93 program in the 1970s. Especially if coupled with a better wing, like what the Su-15 have gotten in it's life time. The F-16-like layout leaves a lot of internal volume for fuel.
For both countries, it can replace all of the usual MiG-21s, and probably could export. Later (post-1990), it make sense to upgrade it with better radars, missiles etc.