Eagle and Lion: Polish-Bohemian Union TL

[sans1shashlik]

Here is the thread for timeline I started doing Infoboxes and Maps for in other threads. I assumed it would be a good idea to make a thread for it since there is some of that stuff already, and as I am not that great in all fields I would have to cover and as I don't really want to abandon it I supposed it could be partially collaborative (although I would probably moderate the canon lore, we will see). You might be able to see lot of inspirations from other great graphic timelines (as for example Fear Nothing But God by Major Crimson, which inspired me to make graphic timeline in a first place).

​

Here is the infobox for man whose ascension to Polish throne is the POD. Son of Albert I, Duke of Braunswick-Luneberg, Luther I, 18th Grandmaster of Teutonic Order becomes King of Poland and integrates State of the Order and with that follows Drang nach Osten (albeit kind of skipping Poland for obvious reasons). This later results in formation of such states like Duchy of Samogitia, Duchy of Livonia (itself being secularised Livonian Order) and survival of allied Novgorod Republic. Luther, dying childless would be succeeded by his relative from Brunswick family - Ernest I.​

 

[Onerom]

Subscribed and good luck, I think your TL has a lot of potential!

 

[Višeslav]

Subbed. Considering your inspiration and the premise, this is a promising TL.

 

[sans1shashlik]

Duchy of Samogitia is a German duchy on Baltic coast, estabilished during Baltic Crusades, and subsequent wars against Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Centered around Kauen, Duchy is home to 856.000, mostly German, people, although around 51.000 still declare themselves as indigeneous Samogitians. Predominant religion is Christianity with mainly Roman Catholic and Protestant adherents. Fairly new trend is increasing fascination with neopagan Romuva religion, being attempt of return to pre-christian beliefs, popular mainly with indigeneous Samogitian population. Samogitia is constitutional monarchy with, although having theoretical executive powers, nowadays more ceremonial Duke and 120-seat parliament called Reichstag. Main parties in the country are social-democratic SDS (Sozialdemokratische Partei Samogitien), christian democratic CS (Christdemokraten Samogitien), and agrarian-green party representing Samogitian minority VS (Volskpartei Samogitien).​

 

[TheKutKu]

View attachment 501241
View attachment 501243

Duchy of Samogitia is a German duchy on Baltic coast, estabilished during Baltic Crusades, and subsequent wars against Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Centered around Kauen, Duchy is home to 856.000, mostly German, people, although around 51.000 still declare themselves as indigeneous Samogitians. Predominant religion is Christianity with mainly Roman Catholic and Protestant adherents. Fairly new trend is increasing fascination with neopagan Romuva religion, being attempt of return to pre-christian beliefs, popular mainly with indigeneous Samogitian population. Samogitia is constitutional monarchy with, although having theoretical executive powers, nowadays more ceremonial Duke and 120-seat parliament called Reichstag. Main parties in the country are social-democratic SDS (Sozialdemokratische Partei Samogitien), christian democratic CS (Christdemokraten Samogitien), and agrarian-green party representing Samogitian minority VS (Volskpartei Samogitien).​

Cool

Does german mean the same thing as IRL?

Also what did you do to Spain

 

[sans1shashlik]

Does german mean the same thing as IRL?

Language is the same, yes, although there are more German nations/states - HRE, Prussia (part of Poland), Samogitia, Livonia.

Also what did you do to Spain

Spain is union of Castile and Portugal not Castile and Aragon (which itself is more naval and meditteranian state than colonies oriented Spain).

 

[sans1shashlik]

The Czech War, also known as Hussite War was started as a result of reformist preaching of Jan Hus. Czech priest would denounce corruption of the Catholic Church and Papacy, garnering support across Bohemia. This provoked supression from the Church. In 1414, Council of Constance, convened to resolve disputes across Christendom including so called Western Schism, tried and imprisoned Hus. In protest, Bohemian and Moravian nobles issued strong worded protest, angering King of the Romans (not yet Emperor) Sigismund. He sent threatening letters, declaring all Hussites heretics and his intent to shortly drown them all, which further angered Bohemians. As unrest in Bohemia increased, in 1419 priest Jan Żelýwski led procession and attacked New Town Hall, throwing King Wenceslaus' representatives and town councilors out of the window (so called Defenestration of Prague). This, coupled with death of King Wenceslaus shortly after lead to even more unrest. After childless death of his brother, Sigismund would claim Bohemian throne and invade the country to bring it under his control. He was aided by Pope Martin V who declared a crusade against Hussites. Hussite forces would band under Jan Żýżka who would lead them to victory under Witków Hill on July 1420. Żýżka however would not be able to consolidate power and civil war would ensue in Bohemia. In result of this and facing another invasion from the Emperor, in 1422 he would offer the Bohemian crown to King Henry I of Poland, who accepted and was crowned King of Bohemia. Polish-Hussite forces would ultimately defeat internal opposition and sign peace with Emperor and the Pope. Catholic Church recognised Hussites who would be allowed to practise under variant rite, and Henry was recognised King of Bohemia (he would be proclaimed by Hussites "Protector of Czech Brethren", title which although not by Henry himself would be used by future Polish kings).​

 

[sans1shashlik]

My ideas for royal coat of arms and royal standard of Polish-Bohemian kingdom:

Spoiler: Coat of Arms

Spoiler: Standard

Hope to get some feedback and im open for proposals.

 

[The Professor]

My ideas for royal coat of arms and royal standard of Polish-Bohemian kingdom:

Spoiler: Coat of Arms

View attachment 501747

Spoiler: Standard

View attachment 501749

Hope to get some feedback and im open for proposals.

Nice but doesn't seem to me to fit how the union came to be nor the ATL present authority of each province.

As I see it you have Prussia incorporated back into Poland under it's GM as King, then incorporation of Galicia, then unification with the Bohemian Kingdom?

If so then I can see the Polish arms prior to union with Bohemia as being either OTL plain silver eagle on red or if Galicia more represented then 1st and 4th Qs Poland, 2 and 3rd Galicia (gold lion on blue) with an inescutcheon of Prussia or Brunswick for the dynasty.
Bohemia's will be OTL arms: plain silver lion on red or that over the provinces.
Post union will see either a quartering of the eagle and lion, or if Galicia is prominent, all three (ideally) as tierced per pall inverted. Over than you can then do an inescutcheon of Prussia, Silesia, and Moravia - tierced per pall (PMS) or per pale (PSM).

 

[sans1shashlik]

Continuation of this election infobox.

Kazýmierz V was King of Poland and Bohemia from 1996 to 2020. His ascension would coincide with 1996 legislative elections that resulted in second of two Conservative governments since 1992, this term in coalition with Liberal party. Fiscally conservative and economically liberal government was not supported by voters in 2000, when Labour Party was chosen. Labour would create governments for three consecutive terms until 2011 when after failed referendum on monarchy abolishment and subsequent loss of parliamentary majority, snap elections were called. These elections were won by National Revival of Kingdom of Poland - party formed by future king Stanýsław. Controversially, allthough in accordance with 1964 Constitution, he appointed his son as Chancellor. He died on 23 May 2020 and was succeeded by Prince Stanýsław.

Stanýsław is current King of Poland and Bohemia and the eldest son of former King Kazýmierz V. He served in 1st Uhlans Division of His Royal Majesty as rotmistrz, between 1989 and 1998, when following his father's ascendance to the royal throne, he became Prince of Mazovia. Ever since then he was active in Mazovian and Polish politics. As an opposer of increasignly anti-monarchist Labour Party, he supported an Conservative government of Duchy of Mazovia (of which he is titular ruler). After failed referendum on monarchy abolishment he formed National Revival of Kingdom of Poland, which won plurality of seats in Seým in 2011 snap elections. To the outrage of left-wing politicians, his father appointed him Chancellor and on 28th November NOKP-Conservative parliamentary majority accepted his government. He ascended to the throne after his father's death on 23 May 2020 and Jacek Wýlk from NOKP succeeded him as Chancellor.​

 

[PolishMagnet]

"Stanýsław"

HMMM a ý and a ł in the same language??! I like the idea of Polish and Czech orthography converging, BUT I think Polish adopting the ý as it can be much written much easier as i, which you actually already have in Kazýmierz. Also, if Polish is going to use more Czech orthography, why continue writing rz and not ř ? It's important to note Polish orthography has leaned towards using more digraphs and Czech has leaned toward using more diacritics. Right now, it just feels like Polish but with ý replacing i.

My second criticism is that your map of Samogitia says "dark green: European customs union", but Samogitia is the only country in dark green. Pretty sure it's just a mistake though.

Cool story so far, though.

 

[sans1shashlik]

"Stanýsław"

HMMM a ý and a ł in the same language??! I like the idea of Polish and Czech orthography converging, BUT I think Polish adopting the ý as it can be much written much easier as i, which you actually already have in Kazýmierz. Also, if Polish is going to use more Czech orthography, why continue writing rz and not ř ? It's important to note Polish orthography has leaned towards using more digraphs and Czech has leaned toward using more diacritics. Right now, it just feels like Polish but with ý replacing i.

My second criticism is that your map of Samogitia says "dark green: European customs union", but Samogitia is the only country in dark green. Pretty sure it's just a mistake though.

Cool story so far, though.

IIRC for a long time in polish language both i and y (after consonants or at end of word) were used instead of just i, and I kept it except adding the diacrictic to differ it from modern polish y sound, but it's pretty much my "design" choice about the language, as I think a few options are plausible (although im not an expert in linguistics so i might be mistaken about probability of such).

 

[The Professor]

IIRC for a long time in polish language both i and y (after consonants or at end of word) were used instead of just i, and I kept it except adding the diacrictic to differ it from modern polish y sound, but it's pretty much my "design" choice about the language, as I think a few options are plausible (although im not an expert in linguistics so i might be mistaken about probability of such).

I think your best bet is to look up when Czech and Polish orthographies were first created and see how your TL affects them.
There's likely to eventually be a single orthography for the entire union regardless of writing in TTL Czech, Polish, Silesian, etc. Most especially since it looks like you have a political union going on.

 

[Kaloryferowy]

So how does this three way union fare in world wars if they still happen and who unites germany since prussia is out of the picture (Austria or perhaps Bavaria would be good candidates assuming that Germany still unifies instead of staying split). There is also a question of possible colonies. Madagaskar for example was discovered by a polish explorer so it would propably end up as a polish-bohemian colony. And what will be their stance with Napoleon. Do they support France (like the polish did historically) or do they oppose him with the rest or europe.

Btw i greatly enjoyed reading your take on alt history. Their is a lack of good alternate scenarios of poland-lithuania not forming and this thread takes on an interesting concept. Good work and i hope i will get to see more of it.

 

[sans1shashlik]

Sorry for lack of posting during holiday season, to hopefully compensate for that, I'm working on two updates so here is little infobox while im making these. (I retconned on ortography for now).

 

[KanadeCanada]

Awesome to see this is still going on!

 

[The Professor]

Any more thoughts on the orthography or armorial?

 

[Kaloryferowy]

If possible could you give us more backstory about Luther the first? How did he aquire the title of king of poland and how did he manage to incorporate the teutonic order so easily. I would imagine there should have been some major opposition (if not a civil war) and if i remember correctly in 1333 poland already had a king (or rather a prince) the son of Władysław, Kazimierz the great. Does Władysław die childless ITTL? Or did some other event enable this scenario?

 

[sans1shashlik]

If possible could you give us more backstory about Luther the first? How did he aquire the title of king of poland and how did he manage to incorporate the teutonic order so easily. I would imagine there should have been some major opposition (if not a civil war) and if i remember correctly in 1333 poland already had a king (or rather a prince) the son of Władysław, Kazimierz the great. Does Władysław die childless ITTL? Or did some other event enable this scenario?

Luther I aquired the throne after childless death of Władysław Łokietek. Nobles (with some opposition that was swiftly put down) have chosen him, perhaps because of Luxembourg threat and because he offered to incorporate the Order State (this is a bit of shorthand because it was a process that took some time, at first it was land administrated separately by the Order, and owned by King-Grandmaster. It became Duchy of Prussia with administrative reforms in later centuries). He and his new Kingdom thus gained support, or at least kind view from Papacy (as a German King) and embarked on quest of Christianizing the wild, pagan East.

 

[Kaloryferowy]

Sooooo is this thread on hiatus or whats going on?