DBWI: No Breckinridge Interregnum

[Deleted member 109224]

During the Winter of Secession, just prior to Lincoln's assumption of power, President Buchanan passed away. Vice President Breckinridge assumed the Acting Presidency.

Acting President Breckinridge would proceed to undermine any prospect of reclamation of the seven rebel states and Arizona. Desperate to avoid bloodshed, he withdraw federal forces from the south and left behind all equipment, supplies, and weapons caches. He allowed state militias to be returned to their governors. Most dangerously of all, he instructed the Secretary of State to treat the representatives of the Confederacy comparably to foreign dignitaries (though not quite recognize the secession).

By the time Lincoln was President, foreign nations had taken Breckinridge's lead and recognized the Confederacy. Upon Lincoln's calling of volunteers, five more states seceded and the risk of foreign intervention loomed. Lincoln ultimately made a fateful decision: in exchange for recognition of the already seceded states and territories, the Confederacy was to abandon all claim to Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Kentucky. Lincoln's administration would be defined by the reconquest of the upper south and ultimate ending of slavery, but he would not see the day that the Union would be fully restored.

Breckinridge ultimately fled south and became Second President of the Confederate States.

What if James Buchanan hadn't passed and Breckinridge hadn't screwed the union?

 

[AltoRegnant]

American-German relations would be less friendly than OTL, not because we'd be enemies but because the CSA signed up with the Entente Cordial and that sent us right to our Brother Eagle. Which i guess means no canada for us. Blast it all. And Liberia would probably be smaller since the French/British stuff we gave them...

Then again we likely wouldn't have had that disastrous intervention in the Workers Revolution in France or the collapse of the UK. Japan wouldn't have gone hypernationalist if they felt theyd been treated better (in fairness, they'd won every engagement with Germany. if anyone should've dictated terms, it would be Roosevelt, not Wilhelm.)

Internally, we'd probably be more socially conservative since the south had a lot of pull politically, but since they left we dragged ourselves super left while remaining capitalistic in order to distinguish ourselves.

 

[The Professor]

American-German relations would be less friendly than OTL, not because we'd be enemies but because the CSA signed up with the Entente Cordial and that sent us right to our Brother Eagle. Which i guess means no canada for us. Blast it all. And Liberia would probably be smaller since the French/British stuff we gave them...

Then again we likely wouldn't have had that disastrous intervention in the Workers Revolution in France or the collapse of the UK. Japan wouldn't have gone hypernationalist if they felt theyd been treated better (in fairness, they'd won every engagement with Germany. if anyone should've dictated terms, it would be Roosevelt, not Wilhelm.)

Internally, we'd probably be more socially conservative since the south had a lot of pull politically, but since they left we dragged ourselves super left while remaining capitalistic in order to distinguish ourselves.

OOC: the threat against Canada is why the UK wouldn't accept the CSA over the USA if the UK was even in the Entente TTL. To me it's more likely there's a US-UK neutral bloc against the Entente and Triple Alliance.
Let's not make this thread another attempt at a U.S. Canada eh?

 

[DracoLazarus]

American-German relations would be less friendly than OTL, not because we'd be enemies but because the CSA signed up with the Entente Cordial and that sent us right to our Brother Eagle. Which i guess means no canada for us. Blast it all. And Liberia would probably be smaller since the French/British stuff we gave them...

Then again we likely wouldn't have had that disastrous intervention in the Workers Revolution in France or the collapse of the UK. Japan wouldn't have gone hypernationalist if they felt theyd been treated better (in fairness, they'd won every engagement with Germany. if anyone should've dictated terms, it would be Roosevelt, not Wilhelm.)

Internally, we'd probably be more socially conservative since the south had a lot of pull politically, but since they left we dragged ourselves super left while remaining capitalistic in order to distinguish ourselves.

Considering that the occupation of France by Germany bankrupted Germany bad enough that the Corps Francs pushed the Germans back to the Rhine and that America had to ransom France for its million conscript army not to be starved down to zero in the ruins of Paris... Disastrous is kind of an euphemism...

 

[AltoRegnant]

OOC: the threat against Canada is why the UK wouldn't accept the CSA over the USA if the UK was even in the Entente TTL. To me it's more likely there's a US-UK neutral bloc against the Entente and Triple Alliance.
Let's not make this thread another attempt at a U.S. Canada eh?

ooc: i was thinking CSA joins with France and Russia, prompting the Union to go to the CP. britain tries to stay neutral until germany invades Belgium. I chose the CSA to join the entente because Britain wasn't looking for allies at the time, and Germany wouldn't nor couldn't have the fleet to protect the CSA from what would be a hostile north, or liberate it after the invasion fell. Obviously France and Britain couldn't liberate it with the western front going the way it did, if not worse because Canada wouldn't provide its men to the line

 

[Deleted member 109224]

The American throwing of lots in with the Germans was rational in response to the French mucking around in the Americans. The CSA happily made sure American "lost" weapons didn't find their way through Arizona and in the hands of Juarez and friends.

France, Imperial Mexico, the Confederacy, and Spain together mucking around in Washington's backyard necessitated the finding of allies overseas. At first it was Russia, but Moscow befriending France. Britain was in splendid isolation, thus Germany was the most rationale choice for an ally. Germany disliked France and disliked the Hapsburgs, so it made sense.

Germany also had the headache of dealing with the quadruple entente: France, Austria-Hungary, Russia, and Spain.

Internally, we'd probably be more socially conservative since the south had a lot of pull politically, but since they left we dragged ourselves super left while remaining capitalistic in order to distinguish ourselves.

Ironically, the Confederacy is much to the American Left on economic measures and remains socially reactionary. America has no national minimum wage, no nationalized railroads, agricultural price supports, nor any state control of other "commanding heights" of the economy. All of these things were implemented by the Confederate Farmer-Labor Party for the purpose of maintaining a social order, but effectively they're left-wing policies implemented for conservative purposes. Blacks can't undercut white labor if there's a price floor, industry can't supplant the power of farmers and planters if controlled by the government, unions controlling the labor supply serves to enforce social barriers, etc.


Americans care little for one's race, religion, creed, or who one loves. They just want to know what you do for work and what your bank balance is.
Most progressive policy in the US is focused around environmental conservation, food and drug quality, and poverty-relief programs.

 

[AltoRegnant]

The American throwing of lots in with the Germans was rational in response to the French mucking around in the Americans. The CSA happily made sure American "lost" weapons didn't find their way through Arizona and in the hands of Juarez and friends.

France, Imperial Mexico, the Confederacy, and Spain together mucking around in Washington's backyard necessitated the finding of allies overseas. At first it was Russia, but Moscow befriending France. Britain was in splendid isolation, thus Germany was the most rationale choice for an ally. Germany disliked France and disliked the Hapsburgs, so it made sense.

Germany also had the headache of dealing with the quadruple entente: France, Austria-Hungary, Russia, and Spain.

Ironically, the Confederacy is much to the American Left on economic measures and remains socially reactionary. America has no national minimum wage, no nationalized railroads, agricultural price supports, nor any state control of other "commanding heights" of the economy. All of these things were implemented by the Confederate Farmer-Labor Party for the purpose of maintaining a social order, but effectively they're left-wing policies implemented for conservative purposes. Blacks can't undercut white labor if there's a price floor, industry can't supplant the power of farmers and planters if controlled by the government, unions controlling the labor supply serves to enforce social barriers, etc.

Americans care little for one's race, religion, creed, or who one loves. They just want to know what you do for work and what your bank balance is.
Most progressive policy in the US is focused around environmental conservation, food and drug quality, and poverty-relief programs.

In fairness the 'no national minimum wage,' is a bit of a misnomer. The 'American Livelihood Act' basically said all states must have a minimum wage set 20% above the current poverty line, to be calculated every five years. So we don't have a hard minimum wage because we can't juxtapose it with the current system.

But yeah, once France and Russia let the CSA in with the Provence Accords (same time they let Austrai in), America was going to join the CP. there's a reason that during the 1890s to 1910s, italy received more american money than any other nation- it was to prepare our weaker ally for the hellish war that Roosevelt knew was coming. The Ottomans certainly received some aid as well, and it was enough to get them to ww2, but honestly we never expected them to need the aid as much as they did.

I wonder what would happen to Britain in ttl, though. Before the Great War, they were on top of the world, but when they lost, they fell to the bottom. hard. Obviously the Absolutist Party didn't come from nowhere, but Britain wouldn't have gone Hypernationalist and invaded France, Norway, or former dominions like Aus/NZ if it hadn't lost the war so badly. God i know a kid whose grandparents were Irish refugees during the war... the stories really don't compare to the textbooks.

If they'd won, they might've been more accepting of the rise of new powers, who knows, maybe after an entente victory, France and Britain go back to hating each other and Britain helps Germany build up

 

[Whiteshore]

Japan wouldn't have gone hypernationalist if they felt theyd been treated better (in fairness, they'd won every engagement with Germany. if anyone should've dictated terms, it would be Roosevelt, not Wilhelm.)

Yeah, China got more than what they deserved as the German-supported Chinese Army's performance was mediocre at best.