London Thinks Big

kernals12

Banned
I kinda like this one. Not sure if it fits the neighborhood, tho.

And the monorail proposal sounds like a really good one, if getting cars of the street is a goal. Any train will carry many, many times the passengers cars will, & a monorail could run on electricity produced without London smog. (Unfortunately, it'd probably be by burning coal...:eek::rolleyes: Which is what's ultimately wrong with the electric car, but you'd never get the green zealots to admit it.:rolleyes: )
London already has the tube. And no public transportation system can come close to the ability of the automobile to take you anywhere you want at anytime without having to wait for other people to get on and off.

And Britain shut off its last coal plants a few years ago.
 
no public transportation system can come close to the ability of the automobile to take you anywhere you want
I don't recall suggesting cars should be banned entire. I just think about NYC's subway system, & the remark, "Who learns to drive in Manhattan?" Most people coming into London don't need to drive, they need to get to/from work, at fixed times & places. You don't, in any fashion, need a car for that--but fast, cheap public transit works very nicely.
 

kernals12

Banned
I don't recall suggesting cars should be banned entire. I just think about NYC's subway system, & the remark, "Who learns to drive in Manhattan?" Most people coming into London don't need to drive, they need to get to/from work, at fixed times & places. You don't, in any fashion, need a car for that--but fast, cheap public transit works very nicely.
London has the Tube.
 
I like the Covent Gardens scheme. Let's build it

1970

London continued to redesign many of its major thoroughfares with Pedestrian Grade Separation in mind
D01WG2cXQAIeegz.jpg

One was Covent Gardens, where pedestrians were put on a higher level free to walk into the shops, restaurants, hotels, and conference center while all traffic was banished to a road and parking lot below.
5be7f0aa6e541b8b743905d6487ac796.jpg

Furthermore, Oxford Street was developed this way, essentially creating an expressway right through Downtown London that was needed with the cancellation of Ringway 1.

Have to wonder how it could integrate an expanded ATL Central London Monorail network, even if it probably only compliments rather than replaces buses.


I would like to see what the Underground would became in ITTL London.

This thread despite having an initial pre-1900 POD would give a rough idea as to how the Underground and railway network in London could have evolved (since it incorporates a number of post-1900 OTL proposals).


As for the subject of road traffic in London, given the loosely "Tokyo-esque" evolution of this ATL London one possible solution would be a post-war UK equivalent of Japan's Kei Car segment that receive tax breaks and other benefits in terms of parking.

And the monorail proposal sounds like a really good one, if getting cars of the street is a goal. Any train will carry many, many times the passengers cars will, & a monorail could run on electricity produced without London smog. (Unfortunately, it'd probably be by burning coal...:eek::rolleyes: Which is what's ultimately wrong with the electric car, but you'd never get the green zealots to admit it.:rolleyes: )

All the more reason ATL UK needs a French-like Messmer Plan.
 
In situations where it currently takes longer to drive somewhere than walk due to congestion? Yes. In bad weather? Yes. If I'm in more pain than usual? Yes. If I'm just feeling lazy? Maybe.
 

kernals12

Banned
In situations where it currently takes longer to drive somewhere than walk due to congestion? Yes. In bad weather? Yes. If I'm in more pain than usual? Yes. If I'm just feeling lazy? Maybe.
Really? You can see yourself tripling your annual mileage?
 
Maybe not tripling, but it's not that simple. If the roads have increased capacity then people who have either given up driving, rarely bother or just decided not to learn due to congestion will be tempted to start.
 

kernals12

Banned
Maybe not tripling, but it's not that simple. If the roads have increased capacity then people who have either given up driving, rarely bother or just decided not to learn due to congestion will be tempted to start.
I do not see any plausible way that per person VMT would triple. And even if it did, that's a good thing. It means people can visit their relatives more often or access jobs that are further away. It seems like highways are the only service where the fact that people use it is a vice instead of a virtue. Nobody ever says "If we build more power plants, people will just use more power"
 
VMT wouldn't have to triple, it would just have to increase enough to fill enough arterial roads that the additional capacity is absorbed. When commuters are all incentivized to live in low-density housing far from the CBD and the personal automobile is the only practical method of commuting, that won't take long at all.
 
Before I forget

2000

A proposal to restore tram service to Croydon after 48 years was laughed off by the London City Council. As one councilman said "Replace buses with trams? What are they going to do next? Replace their computers with typewriters? I've never heard such a thick idea ever".
Most of the croydon tramlink was originally a British rail line which was unprofitable due to how expensive it was to run. Trams allowed costs to be reduced and made extensions to croydon town centre easier.
 

kernals12

Banned
VMT wouldn't have to triple, it would just have to increase enough to fill enough arterial roads that the additional capacity is absorbed. When commuters are all incentivized to live in low-density housing far from the CBD and the personal automobile is the only practical method of commuting, that won't take long at all.
It would increase the capacity of every single road, not just arterials. In fact, by moving pedestrians off the streets and allowing autonomous cars to flow through intersections continuously, city streets will probably see their traffic capacity increased by a lot more than 273%.
 

kernals12

Banned
Most of the croydon tramlink was originally a British rail line which was unprofitable due to how expensive it was to run. Trams allowed costs to be reduced and made extensions to croydon town centre easier.
I prefer to cover them with asphalt and make them into BRT.
 

kernals12

Banned
Have to wonder how it could integrate an expanded ATL Central London Monorail network, even if it probably only compliments rather than replaces buses.




This thread despite having an initial pre-1900 POD would give a rough idea as to how the Underground and railway network in London could have evolved (since it incorporates a number of post-1900 OTL proposals).


As for the subject of road traffic in London, given the loosely "Tokyo-esque" evolution of this ATL London one possible solution would be a post-war UK equivalent of Japan's Kei Car segment that receive tax breaks and other benefits in terms of parking.



All the more reason ATL UK needs a French-like Messmer Plan.
London's population density is only 14,000 per square mile. That's half of what it is for New York.
 

kernals12

Banned
Have to wonder how it could integrate an expanded ATL Central London Monorail network, even if it probably only compliments rather than replaces buses.




This thread despite having an initial pre-1900 POD would give a rough idea as to how the Underground and railway network in London could have evolved (since it incorporates a number of post-1900 OTL proposals).


As for the subject of road traffic in London, given the loosely "Tokyo-esque" evolution of this ATL London one possible solution would be a post-war UK equivalent of Japan's Kei Car segment that receive tax breaks and other benefits in terms of parking.



All the more reason ATL UK needs a French-like Messmer Plan.
Why not? It put Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook on the map.

Sorry, it's the law, any mention of monorails requires a reference to the Simpsons episode.
 
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It would increase the capacity of every single road, not just arterials. In fact, by moving pedestrians off the streets and allowing autonomous cars to flow through intersections continuously, city streets will probably see their traffic capacity increased by a lot more than 273%.

Where are you getting your figures from? That sounds really specific and really optimistic. I'm all for increasing efficiency, but that reads like sales talk.
 
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