What if Germany was still split?

[rarrarinajar]

Idk if it is even realistic, but I thought it would be interesting to ask?
What if Germany was still split even after the collapse of the Soviet Union, how different would thing be?

 

[rommel12]

I don't know much about it, but if East Germany does not improve its economy, its citizens will leave the country.

 

[Lalli]

Unification was pretty inevitable. East Germany wasn't anymore economically viable. Young people would had just moved to West Germany and EG would had collapsed at some point and united with WG. And there was pretty strong will for unification in both countries. Only way is that USA, UK, France and Russia absolutely oppose that and are ready enforce their opposition. But how long they are willingful enforce that?

If occupation powers are willingful enforce unification, East Germany would be very poor nation when all educated people would had moved to West Germany. Both Germanies would are bitter that re-unification is barred. West Germany might even make things in EU and NATO difficult when in EU it could oppose everything new things and could stop expansion of EU and it could do same thing with NATO. So sooner or latter occupation powers are enforced accept re-unification.

 

[Johnrankins]

Yeah, this isn't happening . Once the Berlin Wall came down East Germany went into a demographic death spiral. When best and brightest young people leave and the old and the not too bright remain you are in serious trouble.

 

[Alanith]

East Germany would be populated by a few die hard communists, and illegal West German settlers. Hell, the Red/Russian Army troops would probably outnumber the natives after a certain point!

 

[Enigmajones]

One thing I was thinking about is a slower time table for unification. It would still result in a merger, but would have an independent Democratic East Germany for several years. Now how to get that accomplished I'm not sure.

 

[RMcD94]

It is split up. Austria, Swiss Germans, still separated

 

[Johnrankins]

It is split up. Austria, Swiss Germans, still separated

LOL.

 

[Scerus]

Have the Roosevelt Plan succeed then you might get an permanently divided Germany.

Done.

 

[Dan]

I was travelling around Germany a few years after reunification. The people I was with, late teen, early 20's, leftish leaning, Germans from the west, were complaining about the costs of the reunification, saying tjat if they'd been given accurate information, they might have voted against it.
When we went to Bautzen, there was a lot of resentment of West Germans just ciming in, buying anything they liked and treating the East like a giant theme park.

That was around 1995. By then though it was a done deal.
I think if the financial cost had been known, the social effects known, it might have been delayed a few years while the East brought itself up to a nearer standard.

 

[anotherlurker]

East Germans leave immediately in high single digit millions and turns into a retirement colony unless the West Germans abandon the decades old policy of open door immigration towards East Germans, which would be political suicide for anyone trying get rid of during the euphoric phase, and which if left intact will be political suicide for anyone trying to upkeep after West Germany gets swamped by poor Easterners.

 

[pompejus]

It is split up. Austria, Swiss Germans, still separated

The Swiss Germans aren't Germans. They just speak German.

(also since 1945 the Austrians aren't German anymore either).

 

[Johnrankins]

I was travelling around Germany a few years after reunification. The people I was with, late teen, early 20's, leftish leaning, Germans from the west, were complaining about the costs of the reunification, saying tjat if they'd been given accurate information, they might have voted against it.
When we went to Bautzen, there was a lot of resentment of West Germans just ciming in, buying anything they liked and treating the East like a giant theme park.

That was around 1995. By then though it was a done deal.
I think if the financial cost had been known, the social effects known, it might have been delayed a few years while the East brought itself up to a nearer standard.

All changes have costs and big changes have big costs. The problem with that idea is that the East never would have "brought itself up to a nearer standard" but would have fallen further and further behind as it suffered an epic brain drain. East Germany found itself in a demographic death spiral which would have increased in speed as more and more bright East Germans left East Germany.

 

[MrHaakwood]

I was travelling around Germany a few years after reunification. The people I was with, late teen, early 20's, leftish leaning, Germans from the west, were complaining about the costs of the reunification, saying tjat if they'd been given accurate information, they might have voted against it.
When we went to Bautzen, there was a lot of resentment of West Germans just ciming in, buying anything they liked and treating the East like a giant theme park.

That was around 1995. By then though it was a done deal.
I think if the financial cost had been known, the social effects known, it might have been delayed a few years while the East brought itself up to a nearer standard.

A hangover usually comes after a great party.

 

[Simon]

I think if the financial cost had been known, the social effects known, it might have been delayed a few years while the East brought itself up to a nearer standard.

The problem is how do they bring themselves up to a nearer standard without the support they received from the Federal Republuc? IIRC there's still an imbalance which sees continuing funds being transferred east to the länder that made up the former Democratic Republic.

 

[stevej713]

The Swiss Germans aren't Germans. They just speak German.

(also since 1945 the Austrians aren't German anymore either).

If the Austrians can conveniently become "not German", who says the same can't happen to East Germany? The Moldovan government similarly determined at some point that they were not Romanians and speak a completely different language, even though it sounds just like Romanian.

I agree that no unification is certainly unlikely, but I wouldn't say it absolutely couldn't happen. If the Allies agreed on a more draconian partition of Germany at the end of WW2, a dismembered Germany could very well have become permanent and the German identity could have been relegated to the dustbin of history.

 

[mauriceq]

If the Austrians can conveniently become "not German", who says the same can't happen to East Germany? The Moldovan government similarly determined at some point that they were not Romanians and speak a completely different language, even though it sounds just like Romanian.

I agree that no unification is certainly unlikely, but I wouldn't say it absolutely couldn't happen. If the Allies agreed on a more draconian partition of Germany at the end of WW2, a dismembered Germany could very well have become permanent and the German identity could have been relegated to the dustbin of history.

Austria had already been its own nation that was united for centuries before the German invasion and was geographically separated from Germany. East Germany, as one could tell just by looking at its name, had neither of those things.

 

[Tamara]

Maybe West Germany could go very strongly Catholic, to the point that they don’t want the mainly Protestant East Germans?Not sure how to make that happen, though. You could also change up East German politics, so that people more willing to compromise come to power and allow EG to liberalize slowly rather than it just collapsing.

 

[Veiovis]

Maybe West Germany could go very strongly Catholic, to the point that they don’t want the mainly Protestant East Germans?Not sure how to make that happen, though. You could also change up East German politics, so that people more willing to compromise come to power and allow EG to liberalize slowly rather than it just collapsing.

1) How the hell do you get western germany to become very strongly catholic?
2) How the hell do you get east germany to be mainly protestant?
3) How the hell do you get religion,particulary intra-christian rivalry, to be so important as late as the 90s?

Thats a lot of hells.

 

[Modern Imperialism]

Maybe West Germany could go very strongly Catholic, to the point that they don’t want the mainly Protestant East Germans?Not sure how to make that happen, though. You could also change up East German politics, so that people more willing to compromise come to power and allow EG to liberalize slowly rather than it just collapsing.

You should look at religious map of Germany. The old borders can be seen there. East Germans are largely non-religious now. The west actually got more Protestant because many flees from the east after USSR took it. Many even settled in south Germany traditionally catholic areas.