Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Christory

Christory

Christory said:
*nuclear war maps*
Click to expand...

So recently we got another hypothetical nuclear war map, this one involving India and Pakistan. You could certainly call it a war aim since each country's targeting probably does indeed include these.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/10/eaay5478
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/suppl/2019/09/30/5.10.eaay5478.DC1/aay5478_SM.pdf

kCJYdPo.png
 

BrobDingnag

Christory said:
So recently we got another hypothetical nuclear war map, this one involving India and Pakistan. You could certainly call it a war aim since each country's targeting probably does indeed include these.
Click to expand...
Why do they expect they’ll be able to keep firing on those subsequent days? Why not launch them all at once to increase saturation against defensive measures, too?
 
Neoteros

Neoteros

Mr. Bubbles

Christory said:
So recently we got another hypothetical nuclear war map, this one involving India and Pakistan. You could certainly call it a war aim since each country's targeting probably does indeed include these.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/10/eaay5478
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/suppl/2019/09/30/5.10.eaay5478.DC1/aay5478_SM.pdf

kCJYdPo.png
Click to expand...
And thus, millions are dead, a nuclear winter and global famine occur, and the Ozone layer thins out enough for UV rays to reach the surface
 
TheKutKu

TheKutKu

Mr. Bubbles said:
And thus, millions are dead, a nuclear winter and global famine occur, and the Ozone layer thins out enough for UV rays to reach the surface
Click to expand...

Global famine is unlikely with some dozens of ~50 kt nukes, likely will extend the next winter for some months, the temperature drop won't be uniform, some parts of the world will be 1-2 degree colder, other 1-2 degree warmer.

But yeah it will be a complete disaster, Pakistan is just destroyed, no humanitarian effort can afford to treat the hundred+ million of surviving pakistani, Dozens of millions will die of injuries or starve and the whole country will fall to anarchy, dozens of millions will flee, and Neither Nuked India or (potentially Taliban) Afghanistan can accept them, so they'll be put into camps and starve at best, or summarily shot at worst.

This would be a disaster at least an order of magnitude worse than WW1.
 

Mr. Bubbles

TheKutKu said:
Global famine is unlikely with some dozens of ~50 kt nukes, likely will extend the next winter for some months, the temperature drop won't be uniform, some parts of the world will be 1-2 degree colder, other 1-2 degree warmer.

But yeah it will be a complete disaster, Pakistan is just destroyed, no humanitarian effort can afford to treat the hundred+ million of surviving pakistani, Dozens of millions will die of injuries or starve and the whole country will fall to anarchy, dozens of millions will flee, and Neither Nuked India or (potentially Taliban) Afghanistan can accept them, so they'll be put into camps and starve at best, or summarily shot at worst.

This would be a disaster at least an order of magnitude worse than WW1.
Click to expand...

More recent calculations based on ones from the 1980's suggested that all it would take is the equivalent of 100 Hiroshima-sized nukes (15kt) to trigger nuclear winter. Probably not a massive civilization-ending one, but one that would definitely affect life on earth. I don't even want to imagine what kind of hellscape the Indian Subcontinent would be like after that.
 

xmoose

Nathan Bernacki said:
I agree, but you have to understand that Catholicism has always been a part of Polish national identity. It was crucial that this identity be preserved in a age where the surrounding countries followed some form of Protestantism, especially Sweden, which would become a rival of the PLC for influence in the region. Having a Orthodox/Lutheran branch of the PLC would be anathema to any Pole of the day.
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Not sure if thats true in Vasas times. For long time, Poland-Lithuania was pretty tolerant, there were plenty of orthodox people and protestants too and that change during 17th century, if not later. Merging of polish national identity with roman catholicism is maybe even later thing (partition of Poland between protestant Prussia/Germany and orthodox Russia...?)
I dunno how would this kind of union work, however I think that if could survive, Russia would became catholic (or more likely "uniate") or rest of Commonwealth orthodox (in 14/15th century there were even few orthodox dukes of Lithuania I guess, and, when they get Kiev and became grand princes, they were pretty close to make Vilno or Kiev center of Russia instead of Moscow...)
 
Crazy Boris

Crazy Boris

Banned
xmoose said:
Not sure if thats true in Vasas times. For long time, Poland-Lithuania was pretty tolerant, there were plenty of orthodox people and protestants too and that change during 17th century, if not later. Merging of polish national identity with roman catholicism is maybe even later thing (partition of Poland between protestant Prussia/Germany and orthodox Russia...?)
Click to expand...

I think Catholicism has always been the majority religion of Poles, but it didn't become politically dominant in the Commonwealth until after the counter-reformation, when protestant influence started to die down (If I remember correctly, the Sejm went from being almost half protestant to totally catholic). That said though, the Commonwealth was pretty much always tolerant of all religions within it's borders right up until the end.
 
Linbot

Linbot

Crazy Boris said:
I think Catholicism has always been the majority religion of Poles, but it didn't become politically dominant in the Commonwealth until after the counter-reformation, when protestant influence started to die down (If I remember correctly, the Sejm went from being almost half protestant to totally catholic). That said though, the Commonwealth was pretty much always tolerant of all religions within it's borders right up until the end.
Click to expand...
The counter-reformation caused a significant change in how Poles looked at the world in religious terms, due in large part to Jesuit schooling and activities. Poles became less tolerant of other religions (leading to the Uniate, which eventually led to a massive crisis in Ukraine).

This had not happened when Sigismund Vasa was King, though.
 

Anton2181

"Foreign [lands] we don't want, ours we won't give" - Map of a United Poland, created by Wiktor Skarga-Dobrowolski in 1918
Wow a Polish proposal that includes Lwów and Wilno but not much else in the east
GSiUtDY.jpg
 
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