New York Thinks Big

[kernals12]

Got the fix for that, at least in part:


Lead: America’s Real Criminal Element

I think someone else would discover tetraethyl lead in the hunt for ways to engines more efficient. Even so, that would only replace the 1945-1980 decline and 1980-present revival with flat population. People really did not like the city life and once the suburbs became available they went for it.

 

[History Learner]

I think someone else would discover tetraethyl lead in the hunt for ways to engines more efficient. Even so, that would only replace the 1945-1980 decline and 1980-present revival with flat population. People really did not like the city life and once the suburbs became available they went for it.

Someone else came up with a good idea further down in that same thread:

Also, if nobody discovers CFC's before WWII, that means no accidental discovery of tetrafluroethane. The Manhattan project might probably still discover it (or some other barrier material for gaseous diffusion), but likely not in time to produce an A-Bomb for the war. Teflon and CFC's probably remain classified until the 1970's and are not commercialized until the 90's.

Flat population, growing once again after 1980, is far better than OTL.

 

[M79]

Why would that ever happen?

If New York City continues to grow the upstate and potentially Long Island may feel they have no real voice in state government. In addition if the City keeps growing into Jersey they might decide to push for City addresses and services.

 

[kernals12]

If New York City continues to grow the upstate and potentially Long Island may feel they have no real voice in state government. In addition if the City keeps growing into Jersey they might decide to push for City addresses and services.

I've only given New York City an extra 1.5 million people and maybe 3 million more to the whole metro area.

 

[MattII]

I think someone else would discover tetraethyl lead in the hunt for ways to engines more efficient. Even so, that would only replace the 1945-1980 decline and 1980-present revival with flat population. People really did not like the city life and once the suburbs became available they went for it.

They might do, or they might discover another anti-knock agent.

 

[M79]

I've only given New York City an extra 1.5 million people and maybe 3 million more to the whole metro area.

So the ratio of NYC/NY State goes from 8.5/19.5 to 10/21. But if there's more of NYC to love maybe Secaucus et al (build the train extension PLEASE!) also join in...?

 

[kernals12]

Harvey Wiley Corbett outlined the idea of separating vehicles and pedestrians. When combined with underpasses at each intersection, it would turn every city street into a 6 lane speedway all while keeping pedestrians completely safe. In addition, there'd be arcades that would keep these elevated sidewalks sheltered from weather.

Such a plan would've been far too expensive to retrofit for existing streets but for brand new ones, like on the reclaimed land, it would be absolutely awesome.

 

[kernals12]

So the ratio of NYC/NY State goes from 8.5/19.5 to 10/21. But if there's more of NYC to love maybe Secaucus et al (build the train extension PLEASE!) also join in...?

Why would Hudson County residents want to join? All it would do is raise their taxes.

 

[kernals12]

They might do, or they might discover another anti-knock agent.

There were other ways to raise gasoline octane, but they were all more expensive.

 

[marathag]

I think someone else would discover tetraethyl lead in the hunt for ways to engines more efficient.

Not so much as efficient, but a cheap additive to prevent knock by mimicking higher octane fuel, that in the late 1920s, meant 70+ Octane

The decade before, the Model T had 4:1 Compression so it could run on straight run Gasoline or 'White Gas' that was Naphtha or 'Drip' from natural gas condensation, with low octane rates under 50, hardly better than Kerosene.

But Catalytic Reforming was expensive, sme for using higher grade 'Sweet' Crude Oil as the base for refining.

Rather than TEL, Some used Benzol, a byproduct from Coke and Coal gasification works that was mostly Benzene that has a rating of 114, but a number of other disadvantages besides cost.

 

[kernals12]

Not so much as efficient, but a cheap additive to prevent knock by mimicking higher octane fuel, that in the late 1920s, meant 70+ Octane

The decade before, the Model T had 4:1 Compression so it could run on straight run Gasoline or 'White Gas' that was Naphtha or 'Drip' from natural gas condensation, with low octane rates under 50, hardly better than Kerosene.

But Catalytic Reforming was expensive, sme for using higher grade 'Sweet' Crude Oil as the base for refining.

Rather than TEL, Some used Benzol, a byproduct from Coke and Coal gasification works that was mostly Benzene that has a rating of 114, but a number of other disadvantages besides cost.

Knocking forces you to run your engine at a lower compression ratio, which hurts efficiency. So lead, by preventing knocking, allowed the engines to be more efficient.

 

[DominusNovus]

I think the Brooklyn Bridge would be kept on historic architectural grounds alone. Perhaps even as a glorified bypass. Imagine it, with development underneath and skyscrapers on either side.

 

[marathag]

Knocking forces you to run your engine at a lower compression ratio, which hurts efficiency. So lead, by preventing knocking, allowed the engines to be more efficient.

TEL was the cheapest way to get to that point, plus had the upside of lubricating valves. And did I mention cheap?
Downside was it was hard on spark plugs, and was an aerosolized heavy metal poison.

 

[kernals12]

I think the Brooklyn Bridge would be kept on historic architectural grounds alone. Perhaps even as a glorified bypass. Imagine it, with development underneath and skyscrapers on either side.

It's weird that we think of overpasses as eyesores but bridges as architectural marvels.
But I don't see any practical reason to keep it. There'd be no connection to the Pan Manhattan Expressway.

 

[kernals12]

Some off-topic, but If these works, could another cities would be make more huge urban projects and avoid in some sort the urban-spral of OTL? As suburbs could be more high-density inspired in what happens on NYC ATL.

All in all, I don't plan on doing anything for other cities.

I lied, I decided to fix the Bay Area.

 

[DominusNovus]

It's weird that we think of overpasses as eyesores but bridges as architectural marvels.
But I don't see any practical reason to keep it. There'd be no connection to the Pan Manhattan Expressway.

Because overpasses are eyesoars and bridges often are architectural marvels. Anyway, the Brooklyn Bridge really is a piece of engineering history. I think it would be kept.

 

[TripleCitizen]

Because overpasses are eyesoars and bridges often are architectural marvels. Anyway, the Brooklyn Bridge really is a piece of engineering history. I think it would be kept.

Just because something is an architectural achievement and and feat of engineering doesn’t justify it hindering progress.

 

[kernals12]

Because overpasses are eyesoars and bridges often are architectural marvels. Anyway, the Brooklyn Bridge really is a piece of engineering history. I think it would be kept.

Were people really big on historical preservation in the 30s?

 

[James Ricker]

Why would that ever happen?

The mayor of Manhattan pretty much runs the place like it is a separate state in the governor of New York doesn't like it because the mayor pretty much can.

 

[b0ned0me]

TEL was the cheapest way to get to that point, plus had the upside of lubricating valves. And did I mention cheap?
Downside was it was hard on spark plugs, and was an aerosolized heavy metal poison.

It’s worth pointing out that the early history of TEL was very sketchy indeed, with numerous poisoning deaths among the workers at the first ethyl plants (the ‘House of Butterflies’) and people handling the stuff which led to bans in some states. It pretty much squeaked through curtesy of some extremely unethical promotional practices including Midgely doing a demonstration of its “safety” and then rushing off for secret treatment of lead poisoning. Its one of those topics where a crusading politician could make a great name for themselves in banning the stuff.
As for replacing it, there were other alternatives they just weren’t competitive with TEL provided one assigned a cost of $0 to the massive health costs of TEL. Recognise those costs and TEL is out of the picture long before it becomes embedded as the industry staple.

https://www.pittmed.health.pitt.edu/story/houses-butterflies