British Army adopts an Auto Pistol before 1939

An Automatic for the British

  • Colt 1911 in .45ACP

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • Colt 1911 in .455 Webly Scott Auto

    Votes: 6 8.0%
  • Modified Colt 1911 in 9mm Parabellum

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • Luger P08 in 9mm Parabellum

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • Browning 1903 in 9mm Browning Long

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Browning High Power in 9mm Parabellum

    Votes: 56 74.7%
  • Pistolet automatique modèle 1935 in 7.65 Longue

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Star Model B in 9x19mm Parabellum

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • Radom Vis 35 in 9x19

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • Total voters
    75
There was a special rack developed to allow Hurricane pilots to stow them under the wings

220px-Pilot_6_Sqn_RAF_with_Hurricane_IID_at_Shandur_c1942.jpg

The Royal navy had a special cradle for them as well

WNBR_18-40_mk1_Furious_Turret_pic.jpg
 
I voted Browning Hi Power, but is there a reason the Walther was left off the list?

No reason other than when I started the thread I was thinking more towards 9mm Parabellum size guns. Now I am inclining more towards 9mm short (.380) sized weapons firing a heavier bullet to try and match the .38/200 round that was adopted. Maybe the Soviets had it right with the 9x18 Makarov.
 
No reason other than when I started the thread I was thinking more towards 9mm Parabellum size guns. Now I am inclining more towards 9mm short (.380) sized weapons firing a heavier bullet to try and match the .38/200 round that was adopted. Maybe the Soviets had it right with the 9x18 Makarov.
I'd proffer the Walther P38 should be added. While the Germans had Lugers they had far more Walthers. Just me though.

Pistols are almost a nonissue. Find one off the shelf, and buy a bunch (recommend the same now).
 
As others have pointed out, pistols will do really nothing for changing the combat power of an outfit.
What does change things are SMGs or PDWs in pistol calibers

The pistol in British service wasn't a combat weapon. A pistol was still needed as I said for military police use, as a bailout weapon for air and tank Crews and as something to arm 2nd line troops. SMGs in the early 1930s were still an exotic toy and PDWs were science fiction.
 
I can't see the British buying a German weapon in 1938.
They might just copy one though, tweaking it just enough to claim it's British. The did it with the Bergman MP28 to turn it into the Lanchester. Yes that was a wartime measure but by 1938 war's coming and everyone with eyes knows it.
 
They might just copy one though, tweaking it just enough to claim it's British. The did it with the Bergman MP28 to turn it into the Lanchester. Yes that was a wartime measure but by 1938 war's coming and everyone with eyes knows it.

Not sure the P38 was ideal for Britain. From what I have read and viewed it was complicated with iirc 11 springs and required precision machining, extremely Germanic. From my vast experience of firing 5 rounds through a P1 (P38) I thought it was a nice gun
 
I'd proffer the Walther P38 should be added. While the Germans had Lugers they had far more Walthers. Just me though.

Pistols are almost a nonissue. Find one off the shelf, and buy a bunch (recommend the same now).

P38 Prototypes did not start appearing until 1939 and actual production in any numbers not until 1940 - so while I see nothing wrong with it as a pistol etc I think it is too 'late' to consider as a design for the British to copy and place into production etc
 
I've said before if Britain is going to adopt a semi auto it's likely to be the Browning Hi Power. I was just pointing out that in 1938 with war obviously coming Britain could make the choice that German patents are irrelevant as any court action is unlikely before war breaks out.
 
P38 Prototypes did not start appearing until 1939 and actual production in any numbers not until 1940 - so while I see nothing wrong with it as a pistol etc I think it is too 'late' to consider as a design for the British to copy and place into production etc
Very excellent point. That is helpful.

I am still liking the HiPower, frankly against anything for the next three or four decades. Full disclosure I have a crappy version of one that I swear was made by some East European country. Its junk but you can see it being an awesome pistol with a good manufacturer.
 
I voted Browning Hi Power, but is there a reason the Walther was left off the list?
It's German.
I can't see the British buying a German weapon in 1938.
Exactly.

No reason other than when I started the thread I was thinking more towards 9mm Parabellum size guns. Now I am inclining more towards 9mm short (.380) sized weapons firing a heavier bullet to try and match the .38/200 round that was adopted. Maybe the Soviets had it right with the 9x18 Makarov.
Basically a rimless .38/200. A likely option. Historically I'm not aware of a 9x17 load with a bullet over 95 grains but there's no reason not to go heavier, say 125 grains or more.

The pistol in British service wasn't a combat weapon. A pistol was still needed as I said for military police use, as a bailout weapon for air and tank Crews and as something to arm 2nd line troops. SMGs in the early 1930s were still an exotic toy and PDWs were science fiction.
I'm surprised the UK didn't look more at a shorter 7.7mm round and a carbine PDW. The rationale is there.
 

marathag

Banned
SMGs in the early 1930s were still an exotic toy and PDWs were science fiction.
Early Science Fiction, WWI era flavor
j3dr8bwn9vd21.jpg

or
broomhandle-mauser-carbine01-660x401.jpg

Gun Jesus says late 1890s for this one

PDWs are a modern name for a weapon more accurate than a pistol or SMG, and easier to use.
M1 Carbine is called by some as the first real PDW, and I can't say that they are wrong.
 
Very excellent point. That is helpful.

I am still liking the HiPower, frankly against anything for the next three or four decades. Full disclosure I have a crappy version of one that I swear was made by some East European country. Its junk but you can see it being an awesome pistol with a good manufacturer.
My first vote was also for the high power. Full disclosure I have fond memories of learning how to shot an Ingils made one as a teenager (a long time ago :) )

After a bit of reflection I do think the Walther PP is a better fit for this thread. In the early 1930's I suspect the made in Germany issue could have been dealt with, but yes it may also have been an issue.

Edit to add:
If I had to carry a pistol just because I had to carry a pistol, with little expectation of actually having to fight with it, a pistol along the lines of the PP would be high on my list of early 1930's era options. If I had to carry a pistol with a high expectation of actually using it as a weapon in a one vs one encounter a 1911 (probably in .45 ACP) would be my choice vis a vis early 1930's era options.

Later the Hi Power or perhaps the P38 would be high on my list of options.

All these comments about what I might have done are only made in the context of this fictional time line :)
 
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Some real world British handguns of WWII Era:

View attachment 493664


Colt 1911 in .38 Super. Issued to Commando Units.

View attachment 493665

Ballester-Molina in .45 ACP. Made in Argentina. Issued to Commando Units and 8th Army in the North Africa.

View attachment 493667

My personal favorite! Colt Single Action in .357 Magnum. Issued to Royal Air Force pilots.

View attachment 493669
Colt SAA in .45 cal. Same as above.

Yeah I know why they did that.
Interesting, thanks ! I wasn't aware the UK issued the 1911 in .38 super.
 
Not when you include the cost of retraining every single member of the Armed Forces and Cadet Forces, additional retraining for every single armourer, probably 15x magazines for each, new rifle cleaning kits for everyone (plus spares), new armourer kits, replacement rifle clips for every single tank, APC, SPG, CVR(T), 43, MAN SV, specialised vehicle, 4T and Land Rover in the Armed Forces, new shelving for every single armoury in the Armed Forces and Cadet Forces, new rifle racks for every single guardroom in the Armed Forces, new posters for every training wing, basic training room, TA/Cadet hall etc in the entire Armed Forces, rewriting the drill manual (and retraining the entire Armed Forces and Cadet Force), new PAMs for the entire Armed Forces/Cadet Forces, rewriting TAMs for every single member of the Armed Forces (assuming they still exist) and probably a load of other costs I've not thought of from the top of my head.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things rifles are as cheap as chips. The man-hours to do all that work, definitely not. This I think is exactly why the AK74 ended up the way it did. It wasn’t that the Soviets couldn’t design and field a spiffier more modern/ergonomic design, but they figured that a minimal-change variant that basically only needed a new rifle, magazines and ammo with essentially everything else BAU was plenty good enough, and gave no issues with all the zillions of 47s they were still using.

I was thinking the British may improve the C-96 or at least make the Inglis HP automatic.
The C96 would be a horrendous thing to tool up for and to use, it’s literally a 19th century design. By the time it’s made minimally competitive it’s basically going to be a brand new design. Then there is the issue that full-auto pistol “carbines” are almost always a curates egg. Either they are OK pistols that are a horror show in full auto or they are OK SMGs that are giant clumpy awkward pistols.
The number of troopies that would benefit from having a full-auto stocked GP35 rather than either an MP18/Lanchester or a generic pistol is pretty minimal I would think.
 
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