British Army adopts an Auto Pistol before 1939

[Blue cat]

Well .38 Super isn't a military cartridge, or even much of a police one. Mostly Major pistol shooting or civilian use in countries that restrict 'military' cartridges.

My understanding is that in the 1930's it was being marketed for law enforcement use.

To recap my prior comments, with regards to this fictional time line, adopting the 1911 for military use in a caliber that was less powerful than .45 ACP or .38 super seems a bit strange to me.

The more I reflect on this topic the Walther PP seems like a reasonable choice in the early 1930's.

Later if / when SMG's are wanted perhaps another handgun would have been adopted in what ever caliber was being proposed for SMG's use.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

To recap my prior comments, with regards to this fictional time line, adopting the 1911 for military use in a caliber that was less powerful than .45 ACP or .38 super seems a bit strange to me.

Considering the British had decided that .455 was too much adopting the more powerful .45 ACP or an equivalent seems unlikely.

 

[Catsmate]

My understanding is that in the 1930's it was being marketed for law enforcement use.

Yes, it was briefly popular in the USA as it could penetrate car bodies and contemporary body armour, as much with criminals as LEOs. It was never particularly common.

To recap my prior comments, with regards to this fictional time line, adopting the 1911 for military use in a caliber that was less powerful than .45 ACP or .38 super seems a bit strange to me.

The UK switched from the .455SAA (delivering 450J with a 17g bullet) to .38/200 (delivering 240J with a 12g bullet). They seem not to have been interested in a more powerful cartridge.

The more I reflect on this topic the Walther PP seems like a reasonable choice in the early 1930's.

It's German. That's quite probably enough for the UK to go elsewhere.

Later if / when SMG's are wanted perhaps another handgun would have been adopted in what ever caliber was being proposed for SMG's use.

Why bother? The logistic savings are tiny.

 

[Blue cat]

Considering the British had decided that .455 was too much adopting the more powerful .45 ACP or an equivalent seems unlikely.

In that case why bother looking at the 1911 ?

 

[marathag]

Well .38 Super isn't a military cartridge, or even much of a police one. Mostly Major pistol shooting or civilian use in countries that restrict 'military' cartridges.

38 ACP was popular in the first half of the 20thC, and 38 Super is just a hotter load, equal to todays 9mm +P+

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

In that case why bother looking at the 1911 ?

It's a battle proven design, so why not take a look.

 

[Blue cat]

Why bother? The logistic savings are tiny.

Presumably for the same reasons the UK subsequently issued and adopted a 9mm handgun historically..

 

[Blue cat]

It's a battle proven design, so why not take a look.

It was a battle proven design in U.S. service in .45 ACP and probably one of the best handguns in the world when it was introduced.

In my opponion by the 1930's there were probably better designs avalaible, particularly if one wants to use a significantly less powerfull cartridge.

 

[Blue cat]

It's German. That's quite probably enough for the UK to go elsewhere.

.

The Germans do seem to make good firearms on occasion. On paper the PP seems like a good choice and its post war useage would seem to indicate it would have been a good choice.

So long as the UK doesn't end up having to pay the Germans royalties in war time I don't see why it couldn't have been adopted in the early 1930's.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

So long as the UK doesn't end up having to pay the Germans royalties in war time I don't see why it couldn't have been adopted in the early 1930's.

Demands production rights in exchange for setting aside some war reparations?

 

[b0ned0me]

Doh! Beretta M1934 and the FN 1910/1922 would be other contenders, both likely cheaper than the PP.

 

[marathag]

Doh! Beretta M1934 and the FN 1910/1922 would be other contenders, both likely cheaper than the PP.

Or do what the French did with the MAB Model D, slight changes to the FN and call it a new gun

 

[Blue cat]

Doh! Beretta M1934 and the FN 1910/1922 would be other contenders, both likely cheaper than the PP.

I suppose the results of the selection process would depend on what factors the UK decided were important.

 

[Catsmate]

Presumably for the same reasons the UK subsequently issued and adopted a 9mm handgun historically..

The UK used 7.7mm and 7.92mm machine guns and at least three HMG cartridges.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

The UK used 7.7mm and 7.92mm machine guns and at least three HMG cartridges.

It must have been an absolute nightmare to be an armourer in the Royal Armoured Corps. M1919s in 30-06, Besas in 7.92, Bren guns in .303 (plenty of armoured cars had them). Some tank crews have Thompsons some have Stens...

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

It must have been an absolute nightmare to be an armourer in the Royal Armoured Corps. M1919s in 30-06, Besas in 7.92, Bren guns in .303 (plenty of armoured cars had them). Some tank crews have Thompsons some have Stens...

Don't forget the .38 revolvers.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

Or do what the French did with the MAB Model D, slight changes to the FN and call it a new gun

There was a lot of that about - the Polish did the same (mainly after FN buggered them about) - but the British did tend to play these things with a 'straight bat' as they had far more to lose if they set as a precedent that sort of thing so I cannot see them doing it.

I appreciate that they may have done that sort of thing during the pressures of war but not pre war.

 

[edgeworthy]

Considering the British had decided that .455 was too much adopting the more powerful .45 ACP or an equivalent seems unlikely.

Okay, who else is now thinking ... "Hmm, .455 Webley Sub-Machine Gun!?"

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Not .455 Webley (the revolver round) but .455 Auto, and it would be damn near uncontrollable.

 

[marathag]

Not .455 Webley (the revolver round) but .455 Auto, and it would be damn near uncontrollable.

It still had a MV of 700fps with a 224 gr bullet. That slower with a slightly lighter bullet than the 45 ACP. Not seeing a problem there