Dixieland: The Country of Tomorrow, Everyday (yet another Confederate TL)
- Thread starter TastySpam
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JTTough
Banned
It's probably somewhat different in your timeline, but Lincoln did waver from compensated emancipation according to a letter to John A.J. Creswell on March 7, 1864:
"I am very anxious for emancipation to be effected in Maryland in some substantial form. I think it probable that my expressions of a preference for gradual over immediate emancipation, are misunderstood. I had thought the gradual would produce less confusion and destitution, and therefore would be more satisfactory; but if those who are better acquainted with the subject, and are more deeply interested in it, prefer the immediate, most certainly I have no objection to their judgment prevailing."
Keep up the nice and detailed work.
I suspect that one final war is what’ll break the Confederate camel’s back and led to revolution. Any guesses as to what that war will be? 
Bookmark1995
Banned
I suspect that one final war is what’ll break the Confederate camel’s back and led to revolution. Any guesses as to what that war will be?
TTL World War I.
Like with OTL Tsarist Russia, the TTL Confederacy seems ridiculously backward and reactionary. They only make reforms to the extent that it suits the needs of the ruling class, their emancipation program is ridiculously slow, and their political system is stratified, corrupt, and doesn't seem to obey the rule of law.
When World War I breaks out, they'll find themselves woefully unprepared to fight an industrial war.
And then a bloody horrific revolution followed by a civil war will unfold.
Bookmark1995
Banned
TTL History does not necessarily have to follow OTL History.
To me, one of the reasons why the Russian Revolution turned out the way it did was because there were no democratic institutions in Russia. The stubbornness of the Romanovs meant by 1914, their had never been any real popular franchise.
The TTL Confederacy is a democracy, even if it is a very flawed one. The revolutionary movement that arises doesn't necessarily have to become "A Stalinist Confederacy." It could easily become something democratic.
It would very interesting to actual see a democratic-socialist Confederacy. Something akin to Kaiserreich britain comes to mind.
Bookmark1995
Banned
The TTL Confederate revolution could have one of several outcomes.
1. A genuine workers' democracy, in which black and white sharecroppers work in communal farms and factories, sharing in the work and finally throwing off the mental shackle of racial divide and rule. (This is my personal utopia).
2. A more moderate social democratic republic akin to Weimar Germany.
3. A violent civil war between reactionary and revolutionary elements.
4. A breakup of the Confederacy into several different nations, each following different schools of thought.
5. The failure of the Confederate Revolution, which gives rise to an even more racist and reactionary government.
6. The division of the Confederacy into black and white ethnostates.
7. A mixture of all of the above.
It would be interesting if something like #1 happens and you maybe see people talking about how the Confederate Founders always wanted the country to be that way. A sort of revisionist history.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I don't think they would've supported the part about a multiracial worker's state. Remember, their nation was founded for the explicit purpose of saying people were darker skins were inferior and NEEDED to be enslaved.
Settle down y'all. I reckon we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves with this here speculation about ol' Dixie.
We've just got to let Mr. Spam do his thing.
We've just got to let Mr. Spam do his thing.
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That's why I said revisionist history. There are people who say the same things about the Founding Fathers of the United States. That they wanted the country to be a socialist country, but it was hijacked by the "elites". I'm not saying the Confederate founders actually wanted a racial utopia, I'm saying a revisionist can twist it to seem that way in TTL if the CSA goes down that road.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Wouldn't a hypothetical Confederate revolutionary would most likely "reject" the vision of slaveowners, despite their TTL success in breaking away from the US?
Did Vladimir Lenin, for example, really celebrate the tsars in his rhetoric? Why would a Southern Lenin celebrate the achievements of a wealthy planter like Robert E. Lee?
The Tsars are different though. They had absolute autocratic authority. Meanwhile, the CSA has democracy and a republic, however flawed it may be.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Actually...it isn't too implausible.
IOTL, Sun-Yatsen is well respected in Red China as a the man who created conditions for revolution. It is odd, because he never got to rule all of China.
If this potential anarchist-collective Confederate nation was suddenly threatened by the USA, then I can imagine them using Jefferson Davis as a person to rally around.
I don't really think its very likely to be participation in the First World War that sparks the next Confederate revolution. Besides from the issue of the Confederacy not really having any reason to get involved in the war (which they might out of revanchism or wanting to wack another foreign power I guess?), I doubt they have the capacity to even get a sizable army to Europe. If the war is in North America, the presence of the United States and its near limitless supply of food and raw materials makes it unlikely that the Confederacy could really starve in the same way that OTL Russia did, and also makes it unlikely that they would even have to do the bulk of the fighting (unless they're fighting the US which would be one quick war). The presence of the American navy also makes a naval blockade like the one Spain did ITTL almost impossible, unless the opponent is an extremely wanked United Kingdom.
If anything I think it will be more like the otl Mexican Revolution in what kicks it off. Decades of sustained military rule and a stagnate economy finally boils over after a sparking incident leading to mass uprisings by the lower class, infighting in the military, and the growing middle class trying to overthrow the military regime.
Bookmark1995
Banned
My idea of a Confederate Revolution would specifically come from a potential war between the CS and the US. The former would crumble from massive military victories and being unable to fight an industrial war with its outdated institutions.
Given the degree to which the Confederacy has been weakend, I simply don't see a US/CS war any time in the next generation or so *even with European Help*. There are only two nations whose assistance would help bring the CS anywhere near the US in military power: Mexico (which just twisted the knife by taking (or taking back depending on your position) south Texas) and Britain and in this situation, I'm not even sure *both* would be enough. This isn't the confederacy of Turtledove, this is a *broken* country.
The way the story has gone recently, I'd expect the alignment in the alt-WWI to be Catholic (Mexico, Spain, France, Italy, AH) vs Protestant (US, UK, Germany, Sweden?) with Russia and AH being the wildcards and probably ending up split between. Is it the US or Mexico that sweeps across the western confederacy to surprise the other? (CSA as Belgium)
The way the story has gone recently, I'd expect the alignment in the alt-WWI to be Catholic (Mexico, Spain, France, Italy, AH) vs Protestant (US, UK, Germany, Sweden?) with Russia and AH being the wildcards and probably ending up split between. Is it the US or Mexico that sweeps across the western confederacy to surprise the other? (CSA as Belgium)