That sounds lovely. It certainly could be a new thing not seen many times in TL and it would help preserve the wonderful culture of the area since, IIRC, there are still places that speak some form of Mayan.
The Colossus Of The New World - a worldbuilding project
- Thread starter Višeslav
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That sounds lovely. It certainly could be a new thing not seen many times in TL and it would help preserve the wonderful culture of the area since, IIRC, there are still places that speak some form of Mayan.
I know there were attempts to form a Mayan state in the 19th century (Caste War).
See I was picturing it as a breakaway state as well. TBH, I feel like Mexico would be more hostile towards a country whose government could claim to rule mexico than towards a breakaway state (not by much but still), and the proximity of the US, which opposes monarchies also doesn't increase this California's chances of survival. I'm not saying it can't exist, just, not the way I expected it to go. Monarchist California is cool though.
Also, presumably, filibusters don't bug off to Tejas for the Glorious Bald Eagle, so that probably can't be the purpose of the Mex-Merican War ITTL. I could also see the lack of substantial territorial gains (outside of most of Alta and a bunch of desert territory with nobody inhabiting it) being because of the North refusing to help the South fight the war (probably for similar reasons to IRL).
IDEA FOR CALIFORNIA:
1. Mexican-American War starts when American filibusters declare the Republic of California in the provinces of Alta and Baja California.
2. Northerners, refusing to fight in a war which would benefit Southern slaveholders, abstain from combat in a move which has questionable legality.
3. A more unarmed Southern force sweeps some of the northernmost parts of Mexico, ending in a stalemate by the end of a year of combat. As this is going on, Congress debates whether or not the Northern States can abstain from fighting in a war (Northern US probably argues that the AOC/Constitution's mutual defense clause refers only to defensive wars, as opposed to the offensive Mexican-American War).
4. A treaty is decided that leads to the modern borders between Mexico and the United States (Treaty of Mérida? Treaty of Havana?). During these peace talks, the southern half of the Republic of California (referred to occasionally as Monterrey-California) reject statehood proposals and are recognized by both parties as an independent state.
--OPTIONAL--
5. At some point, an empire is established in Mexico that is quickly overthrown by the Mexican people. The sovereign and his/her loyal subjects take over Monterrey and declare a government-in-exile. Eventually, a joint US-Mexico coalition help restore a republican government to California.
(I still like the idea of a Mexico and America that are on good terms -- this war would probably be seen as a major squabble that marked the worst point of their joint history. It throws a nice wrench into the USA DESTROYS MEXICO!! timelines that are common, while also not having a MEXICO UBER ALLES timeline either).
1. Mexican-American War starts when American filibusters declare the Republic of California in the provinces of Alta and Baja California.
2. Northerners, refusing to fight in a war which would benefit Southern slaveholders, abstain from combat in a move which has questionable legality.
3. A more unarmed Southern force sweeps some of the northernmost parts of Mexico, ending in a stalemate by the end of a year of combat. As this is going on, Congress debates whether or not the Northern States can abstain from fighting in a war (Northern US probably argues that the AOC/Constitution's mutual defense clause refers only to defensive wars, as opposed to the offensive Mexican-American War).
4. A treaty is decided that leads to the modern borders between Mexico and the United States (Treaty of Mérida? Treaty of Havana?). During these peace talks, the southern half of the Republic of California (referred to occasionally as Monterrey-California) reject statehood proposals and are recognized by both parties as an independent state.
--OPTIONAL--
5. At some point, an empire is established in Mexico that is quickly overthrown by the Mexican people. The sovereign and his/her loyal subjects take over Monterrey and declare a government-in-exile. Eventually, a joint US-Mexico coalition help restore a republican government to California.
(I still like the idea of a Mexico and America that are on good terms -- this war would probably be seen as a major squabble that marked the worst point of their joint history. It throws a nice wrench into the USA DESTROYS MEXICO!! timelines that are common, while also not having a MEXICO UBER ALLES timeline either).
I like this idea. I can see some slick Northern politicians smoothing things over with Mexico in the years after the war. Perhaps California is where the empire is declared, and it tries and fails to conquer Mexico, with the United States intervening in Mexico's favor?
We should go ahead with this.
1-4 for sure, probably some variation of 5.
And yes, I like that your plan doesn't go to either extreme for the US-Mexico power dynamic. As you've probably noticed, I don't like to give something big the green light before at least 3 people other than me have given their opinions, so I'll wait 'till tomorrow but I like your idea and you can expect it to get accepted. I might be able to make some visuals (a map, a wikibox) for California if I have time (or if I choose to ignore any work I have to do).
TBH I'm not a fan of writing on flags, though if it is just for the country in its early days or for a temporary California either flag works fine. We could also go for a less US inspired flag...
I'm not particularly into text-on-flags, either, but it has the Good Old Revolutionary Flag charm to it.
You're right, it works for a revolutionary flag, but most (non-Arabic) countries don't feature it prominently on their post revolution national flags (some have text, just not big text).
I'm a fan of that generally. Do you mean it as a US flag idea or for the flag of California?
On this again, perhaps Charles Sumner is one of the Northern congressmen who try to argue that the North doesn't have to participate in the war, only to meet a similar fate as he did in IRL (he still lives, of course, but it sounds more ominous if I say it this way).
On this again, perhaps Charles Sumner is one of the Northern congressmen who try to argue that the North doesn't have to participate in the war, only to meet a similar fate as he did in IRL (he still lives, of course, but it sounds more ominous if I say it this way).
I like it. As I've said before, we should write up a summary of the history overall along with more detailed posts on interesting events (so in this case maybe the image accompanied by a blurb about the whole situation as part of a small set of posts about the Mexican-American war or something) and threadmark them. This way we won't forget about these good ideas and when people see the later stuff (for example they see a modern day world map) and ask themselves how the hell the world got to be like this, they don't have to scroll through every page of the thread to find out.