TL-191: Yankee Joe - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the U.S. Armed Forces

[Petike]

Some of my older works, gentlemen...

All right, here's a poster I started working on a looong time ago and it lay dormant in my artwork folder until I've finally finished it today. A CSA military poster from the Great War that is less propagandist in nature and more of an informative chart for the average Confederate soldier and serviceman.

All helmets are described by their most common figurative names. The "Coal Scuttle" and "Stonewall" are the standard US and CS helmets that appear in the novels of The Great War subseries. The others are rarer or experimental types. As you might have noticed, one of the Confederate models is actually based on the French Adriane, hence the nickname "Frenchie" (an almost equally popular nickname for it is "Cresthead").

Based on these OTL photos.

I'm finishing a more complex poster, but in the meantime, here's a simple yet effective CSA poster from the Great War era. (Made from an OTL Australian one.)

Originally depicted an Aussie soldier, I suppose. The hat style would fit the CSA, though.

Yes, yes, I know the CSA of TL-191 didn't use paratroopers in the SGW (for some reason), but it was too tempting not to include one (mainly as a reference to the original poster that inspired me). Also, I think the chosen pictures look pretty convincing, since the OTL Canadian army isn't as popular as the American and British one, therefore, their uniforms and equipment have a pretty unique look to them - sort of like a hybrid of British and American styles, right down to combining the typical colours. The bayoneted Sterling (right ?) SMG is pretty easy to imagine as a Confederate (and of course, British) counterpart to the Thompson or PPSH and the odd rifle of the sniper (is that a Canadian Springfield or a modified Lee-Enfield ?) is a great stand-in for the fictional Tredegar. Hope you like it.

Though I probably "done goofed up" with the paratrooper. They didn't have them in the series, did they ?

For your consideration.

 

[MFOM]

Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon and M1914 Hotchkiss Machine Gun

And now for something a little different. After briefly reading up on Benjamin B. Hotchkiss very briefly, it completely surprised me that this guy developed a "revolving canon" - basically a Gatling Gun, but instead of shooting bullets you're shooting shells from either set of five 37mm, 47mm, or 57mm barrels. The man in our timeline was born in Connecticut and employed by the US Army during the Civil War to produce rifles. After the Civil War he moved to France to set up a munitions factory there since the US government no longer needed him making guns. In France the company he founded was called Hotchkiss et Cie and, yes, if the name is ringing a bell to you it is the same company that produced the French M1914 Hotchkiss Machine Gun of WWI. The man did not make the gun himself though he died before the time his company produced the weapon en masse.

View attachment 455414

Now, in this timeline I'm wondering if the guns this guy and his company made would either be butter-flied away or, if they're not, find use exclusively with the US and Central Powers. If its the latter, then may I introduce to you the Revolving Cannon!

The gun came in several calibers, could fire shrapnel or canister shots, and was intended for use by land forces as a field gun or a fortress defense gun. Naval forces would use this gun as defense against torpedo boats that got into close range.

View attachment 455410

View attachment 455411

View attachment 455412

View attachment 455413

So, my question is would these guns still exist in TL-191 for their intended roles? If they do still exist, given the changes, then would it be possible these guns would find use in different countries than they historically did in our timeline? For example, if they do still exist in TL-191, I picture the revolving canon being used by US primarily, but finding use with the Central Powers if produced for export. More consequentially does that mean the Hotchkiss M1914 would no longer be a French machine gun?

In OTL it was used by several powers as a fortress defense weapon to repel infantry attacks, so it would find use in the extensive fortifications in this TL as well, at least until MGs take over that role, i could certainly see them taken out of storage to be used in the infantry support role or AA role.

 

[pattontank12]

Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon and M1914 Hotchkiss Machine Gun

And now for something a little different. After briefly reading up on Benjamin B. Hotchkiss very briefly, it completely surprised me that this guy developed a "revolving canon" - basically a Gatling Gun, but instead of shooting bullets you're shooting shells from either set of five 37mm, 47mm, or 57mm barrels. The man in our timeline was born in Connecticut and employed by the US Army during the Civil War to produce rifles. After the Civil War he moved to France to set up a munitions factory there since the US government no longer needed him making guns. In France the company he founded was called Hotchkiss et Cie and, yes, if the name is ringing a bell to you it is the same company that produced the French M1914 Hotchkiss Machine Gun of WWI. The man did not make the gun himself though he died before the time his company produced the weapon en masse.

View attachment 455414

Now, in this timeline I'm wondering if the guns this guy and his company made would either be butter-flied away or, if they're not, find use exclusively with the US and Central Powers. If its the latter, then may I introduce to you the Revolving Cannon!

The gun came in several calibers, could fire shrapnel or canister shots, and was intended for use by land forces as a field gun or a fortress defense gun. Naval forces would use this gun as defense against torpedo boats that got into close range.

View attachment 455410

View attachment 455411

View attachment 455412

View attachment 455413

So, my question is would these guns still exist in TL-191 for their intended roles? If they do still exist, given the changes, then would it be possible these guns would find use in different countries than they historically did in our timeline? For example, if they do still exist in TL-191, I picture the revolving canon being used by US primarily, but finding use with the Central Powers if produced for export. More consequentially does that mean the Hotchkiss M1914 would no longer be a French machine gun?

In OTL it was used by several powers as a fortress defense weapon to repel infantry attacks, so it would find use in the extensive fortifications in this TL as well, at least until MGs take over that role, i could certainly see them taken out of storage to be used in the infantry support role or AA role.

Would be possible for the Hotchkiss revolving cannon to be used as the main weapon of an armored vehicle in place of a cannon or machine gun?

 

[cortz#9]

Would be possible for the Hotchkiss revolving cannon to be used as the main weapon of an armored vehicle in place of a cannon or machine gun?

Find me a line drawing of one and I'll have a friend of mine scale it with some armored vehicles and we'll both find out.

 

[pattontank12]

How are these for the Union military?

 

[cortz#9]

How are these for the Union military?

I used sections from both the Johnson rifle and Johnson LMG for some alternate Confederate small arms on the Featherston's Finest thread.

 

[pattontank12]

I used sections from both the Johnson rifle and Johnson LMG for some alternate Confederate small arms on the Featherston's Finest thread.

The Ingram could definitely be a nice alternative to the Thompson submachine, possibly being developed following the outbreak of the war.

 

[RaspingLeech]

Figure I might as well post this here, I made a small reference for my interpretation of US Army uniforms in both wars:

GREAT WAR ERA (M1912):

• Standard issue headwear was a close relative the Bergmütze ski cap to replace the War of Secession-styled kepi.
  
• Calf-high jackboots were adopted in the late 1880s when the Army greatly modeled itself after the German Empire. While technically standard issue throughout the Great War, lax regulations led to many soldiers wearing shorter boots, civilian footwear, or Confederate boots taken from fallen enemies.
• Buttons were a silver color which continued well past the war's end. Field modifications often involved covering any metal surfaces with either paint or mud in order to be less conspicuous in battle.
• Belt buckles greatly resembled their War of Secession counterpart in a silver color. Exact designs varied, with either a rounded "US" buckle or square eagle design issued. The rectangular buckle would ultimately be standardized in the 1920s.

SECOND GREAT WAR ERA (M1939):

• While the overall cut of the uniform remained similar to its Great War counterpart, later uniforms were shorter in length and featured a larger collar
• All metal surfaces sported a matte gray color, although silver buttons were still commonplace throughout the war
• Small hooks to support the equipment belt were present on the tunic, and a more modern Y-strap system was adopted.
• Shorter utility boots were now standard-issue for comfort, although jackboots would remain standard for parade uniforms.
• Two breast pockets were added with all four being pleated. Urgent need for uniforms meant that varying degrees of simplification were present even in uniforms from the same factory.

Absolutely not exact or final but I wanted something that wasn't the typical "literally just the Wehrmacht" uniform.

 

[MarchingThroughGeorgia]

I can see the T29 heavy tank having some kind of future in Tl-191

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T29_Heavy_Tank

 

[cortz#9]

I can see the T29 heavy tank having some kind of future in Tl-191

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T29_Heavy_Tank

Check out the pics I did of a Union heavy barrel on page 21.

 

[Rehngrun]

I think the automatics in TL-191 that you guys are thinking about is something analogue to OTL's BAR. Turtledove seems to have given the CSA weapons reminiscent of OTL US weaponry and to a lesser degree some weapons that sound like they were inspired by German weapons like the Tiger tank and the Stuka.

This doesn't make complete sense to me because the CSA is allied to Britain and France and I would think there planes and barrels would have some influence on the CS but that doesn't mean the CSA wouldn't have some original designs of their own.

So the Entente lost the Great War. The German Tiger and Stuka didn't influence the Confederate design because these machines do not exist for the Confederates to draw inspiration from. Confederate gear and tactics during the Second World War are implied to be their world's analogue to Germany in OTL World War II. A small country relying on speed and overwhelming concentrated firepower to defeat a numerically superior enemy. The former Entente powers of France, Britain, the Confederacy, Russia and others are heavily implied to be the TL-191 fascist Axis powers. The Union and Germany are heavily implied to be TL-191's analogue to the European Allies, specifically the Union filling the role as the Soviet Union to the Confederacy's Germany, with the German Empire filling a sort of quasi-Western Allied role supported by all the nations who were drawn to the security and prosperity of the Empire following the end of the Great War, which in TL-191 ended in September of 1917. Germany never developed the Stuka because it had no need for it. Meanwhile, the Confederacy developed a tactical need for a bomber capable of delivering not inconsiderable payloads with relatively high accuracy, which it developed in the Mexican Civil War of TL-191's 1930s alongside Barrels, which it was banned by treaty from possessing. But Confederate officers serving in the Mexican Army? They aren't bound by that treaty. The Germans of TL-191 backed the Monarchists in the Spanish Civil War, and lost to the Franco-British backed Nationalists.

 

[cortz#9]

So the Entente lost the Great War. The German Tiger and Stuka didn't influence the Confederate design because these machines do not exist for the Confederates to draw inspiration from. Confederate gear and tactics during the Second World War are implied to be their world's analogue to Germany in OTL World War II. A small country relying on speed and overwhelming concentrated firepower to defeat a numerically superior enemy. The former Entente powers of France, Britain, the Confederacy, Russia and others are heavily implied to be the TL-191 fascist Axis powers. The Union and Germany are heavily implied to be TL-191's analogue to the European Allies, specifically the Union filling the role as the Soviet Union to the Confederacy's Germany, with the German Empire filling a sort of quasi-Western Allied role supported by all the nations who were drawn to the security and prosperity of the Empire following the end of the Great War, which in TL-191 ended in September of 1917. Germany never developed the Stuka because it had no need for it. Meanwhile, the Confederacy developed a tactical need for a bomber capable of delivering not inconsiderable payloads with relatively high accuracy, which it developed in the Mexican Civil War of TL-191's 1930s alongside Barrels, which it was banned by treaty from possessing. But Confederate officers serving in the Mexican Army? They aren't bound by that treaty. The Germans of TL-191 backed the Monarchists in the Spanish Civil War, and lost to the Franco-British backed Nationalists.

You're right that the Stuka and the Tiger didn't influence the Confederacy but they did inspire Turtledove, their description in the books sound a lot like the German weapons so ITL-191 the Germans didn't develop them but the CSA did for similar reasons.

I wonder what Hollywood would use to represent the CSA arsenal if they were ever to do a film on TL-191? Would they just use US armor vehicles and aircraft to represent both sides or would they convert existing vehicles to look like WWII German vehicles, build models of something completely different?
I think Hollywood would just use US made weapons for both sides like Shermans for the Union and maybe M41 Walkers for the CSA, P51's Mustangs for the Union and maybe P40's for the CSA.
It would be cool if a studio went and designed all new tanks and aircraft for a movie or a mini series but I doubt they would do that.

 

[pattontank12]

Now this I could see being a Union prototype for a "Attack Rifle" during the final months of sgw.

 

[cortz#9]

Now this I could see being a Union prototype for a "Attack Rifle" during the final months of sgw.

Looks like a Druganov sniper rifle. I wish they had had Nerf guns when I was a kid.

 

[pattontank12]

Looks like a Druganov sniper rifle. I wish they had had Nerf guns when I was a kid.

They are pretty great for creating prop weapons for sci-fi settings...

 

[Soundwave3591]

as with my contribution in the "Featherston's Finest" forum, I've drawn up my take on some of the vehicle operated by the Yankees in TL-191.

the General consensus from what i've gathered is that the US Barrels are based on the T-34, but instead of outright copying that design i went more for a "what might have been" had Walter Christie's design (that led to the Soviet BT-series, which in turn led to the T-34) been bought by the US Military. cross-breeding it with the M-18 Hellcat gave me the Mark III Barrel.

the CCKW uses some German inspiration, which fits the allied mentality of US equipment using German inspiration.

as for the Wright-27, I've stayed true to the P-40 inspiration, but again not used a direct copy.

as for the Halftracks....eh, if it ain't broke

 

[rob2001]

as with my contribution in the "Featherston's Finest" forum, I've drawn up my take on some of the vehicle operated by the Yankees in TL-191.

the General consensus from what i've gathered is that the US Barrels are based on the T-34, but instead of outright copying that design i went more for a "what might have been" had Walter Christie's design (that led to the Soviet BT-series, which in turn led to the T-34) been bought by the US Military. cross-breeding it with the M-18 Hellcat gave me the Mark III Barrel.

the CCKW uses some German inspiration, which fits the allied mentality of US equipment using German inspiration.

as for the Wright-27, I've stayed true to the P-40 inspiration, but again not used a direct copy.

as for the Halftracks....eh, if it ain't broke

The SkyShark kind of looks like a cross between a P-40 and ME-109.

 

[cortz#9]

as with my contribution in the "Featherston's Finest" forum, I've drawn up my take on some of the vehicle operated by the Yankees in TL-191.

the General consensus from what i've gathered is that the US Barrels are based on the T-34, but instead of outright copying that design i went more for a "what might have been" had Walter Christie's design (that led to the Soviet BT-series, which in turn led to the T-34) been bought by the US Military. cross-breeding it with the M-18 Hellcat gave me the Mark III Barrel.

the CCKW uses some German inspiration, which fits the allied mentality of US equipment using German inspiration.

as for the Wright-27, I've stayed true to the P-40 inspiration, but again not used a direct copy.

as for the Halftracks....eh, if it ain't broke

Very cool. I liked your posts over at "Featherston's Finest" as well.
I like the Sky Shark and I'd like to do something similar but with a different engine and armament, I'm thinking a 20mm in the nose and two more in each wing. That is if you don't mind me stealing your idea.

 

[Soundwave3591]

Sure thing!

 

[cortz#9]

Sure thing!

Cool! Will try to have something up before the end of the weekend.