could Sweden rely on germany to send advisors to them to train and command their armies?
The German Century
- Thread starter Joriz Castillo
- Start date
- Status
Swedes might call Germans as advisors and perhaps some troops too. Not sure what Brits are doing when them have better relationships with Germans than in OTL. Russians probably decide stay out. Too risky and probably quiet pointless. Russia just lost war to Japan and suffered about revolution so it not be going participate wars ehile. In other hand they can be sometimes bit unpredictable.
Im assuming norway will win this war which will cause sweden to align with germany. Nordic union will be dead, maybe greater sweden retakes finland.
Really? Finnish nationalism was never really a strong thing, also weren't the swedes not bad rulers cooperatively to their time. I thought swedes just saw finns as swedes with a different language. Anway they could offer a federation. Also finnish upper class is pro-russian if they are eliminated i doubt there would be enough finnish desire to fight sweden.
Norway is mountainous and cold. The only realistic axis of advance given 1905 conditions would be along narrow mountain passes I’d imagine. That means you get a repeat of Italy’s attack on France in 1940 or the Italian Front on WW1. Norway’s army is presumably smaller than Sweden’s, but they have the backing of the British and Danes, so a drawn out defensive campaign may not be totally out of the picture. They would likely use delaying tactics at the border to ensure their integrity, but the Swedes would likely over power them and then the Norwegians would retreat into the mountainous terrain and either conduct commando style operations or attempt a formal defense along the roads/rail lines, maybe a mix of both. Defense in depth tactics haven’t been developed yet ITTL.
Sweden has a larger army, but Denmark’s and Britain’s support for Norway means that they’re mostly cut off from the outside world, and wouldn’t be able to mount an effective blockade. They’d want a fast war, and probably try to storm down the mountain roads before they were blocked. A drive in Oslo and some other strategic targets would make sense.
Most of the fighting would be in the south where most of the people live. Further north you could see raids, but not much else.
During his victory speech, he made one announcement that would surprise everyone: he would run again as president in 1908.
The Bull Moose would continue marching on.
Theodore Roosevelt, US President (1901-)
(1859-)
I’ve stumbled upon this tale by chance and I must say, this right here has me invested above all else. I’ve always liked the idea of TR winning the election in 1912, but him being re-elected in 1908?
Let’s just say that him avoiding A. His trip to the Amazon, and B. His assassination attempt, would be quite the benefit to his health. Here’s hoping TR sticks around for a little longer in this Timeline
I've seen other TLs where there are more than 3 images in a single post. Why am I getting this limit?
This a fight you REALLY want to have?
The limit is a limit that is well established here. Posts are reviewed when reported.
You want to make this your hill come ahead on.
Just a suggestion.
If you, Joriz, wants to have a clarification on the issue, DM to CalBear; meanwhile, follow the rules and go on with this TL, please.
If you, Joriz, wants to have a clarification on the issue, DM to CalBear; meanwhile, follow the rules and go on with this TL, please.
We are enjoying the timeline so please don't get into a fight with the mods. Think of it like a traffic cop. You will have seen three or four people driving as hard as you and not getting stopped. Just put it down to randomly being detected!
The Call of Valhalla
Sorry for the long wait, everyone. I had to prepare and finish my exams but after that was done, I hadn't thought of continuing this TL until I got back the strength to write it.
Part 2: The Call of Valhalla
As soon as the ultimatum came and pass, the Swedish army began marching across the border. Sweden had both the men and the equipment necessary to fight the lesser populated Norway. On the other hand, the Norwegians had the upper hand in tactics. Although they knew they couldn't stop the blonde-haired behemoths coming their way, they could at least slow it down for more time.
After capturing a couple of towns near the border, the swedes advanced on Fredrikstad thinking it was another walk in the park. What they couldn't expect was resistance. As soon as they got near the outskirts of the city, they were met by a hail of bullets coming from the trees and bushes. Several platoons of militia along with members from the shooting clubs had taken up positions around the city.
For 3 days, gunfire was exchanged from street to street until Fredrikstad was finally cleared of the militias and the Swedes were on the move again. With this news, the Norwegian government decided to deploy its regular troops to stall the Swedish advance for time and evacuate to another city somewhere east while its newly created but unrecognized foreign ministry looked for support in Europe or elsewhere.

A group of militiamen poses for the camera before marching out to engage the Swedes. The role of the militias played in the defense of Norway had greatly influenced strategic thinking regarding guerilla warfare for the new century.
As Scandinavians fought Scandinavians, the continent looked on in keen observation. Britain, keen on maintaining its trading interests, covertly backed the Norwegians along with France and Russia. The French sent token support to one-up their German rivals. As a country more aligned to Germany than Britain, Sweden received its support from the Germans which included military advisors. They also received powerful Krupp artillery guns from the Austrians as a token gesture of support.
As the Swedish army got closer and closer to Christiania, the Storting was packing up for a train ride to Bergen to escape arrest. In his diary, Prime Minister Christian Michelsen wrote:
"I don't know how tough this will be. The Swedes are not that far from here and I fear for my safety along with my family. If things don't change, this could be the end for me".
Indeed they did fear for their lives as the Swedes had issued arrest warrants for the capture of Michelsen and members of his cabinet. They had even put a 500,000 kronor bounty on their capture as well.
The seas weren't quiet either. When the ultimatum expired, the Swedish navy immediately sailed for Christiania. While doing so, they sent smaller fleets to the other coastal cities such as Kristiansand and Stavanger to land troops and outflank the Norwegians. Both landings were successful as resistance in the cities was minimal due to most of the Norwegian troops withdrawing deep into the countryside. Things seemed to be getting worse and worse.
On September 15, the Swedish army had reached the outskirts of the Norwegian capital. Wanting to capture the city unscathed, they sent an envoy inside to negotiate its surrender but the defenders ultimately refused the offer. Having no choice, the Swedish commander, Knut Bildt, ordered his forces to assault the city in one grand assault. Defending the city were a hodgepodge of militiamen, local volunteers, and some regular army units.
Like the Caroleans of a bygone era, the Swedes descended upon the city coming straight up from Lambertseter. They advanced under heavy fire among the suburbs as they inched closer and closer towards the heart of Christiania. One by one, the various city landmarks fell to the attackers as the Norwegians were in retreat across the city. The sounds of rifle and machine-gun fire along with the occasional artillery bombardment echoed across the capital at a constant occurrence. The fighting was so bad that one German officer present during the battle remarked: "It was like Peking all over again; the whole damn city was devastated".
Amidst the chaos, a company of soldiers and militiamen had entrenched themselves inside Akershus fortress. Knowing the city was about to fall, they nevertheless sat tight and waited for the Swedes to come. Once they came, they unleashed hell upon the attackers like there was no tomorrow. For days, the Swedes besieged the fortress, having it cut off from the outside world. Every assault the Swedes launched on Akershus were repelled, giving them no choice but to shell the fortress into ruins.
Despite the shelling, the defenders had sought shelter inside the castle's tunnels for cover and were their stockpiled ammunition was stored. Some of them had even brought machine guns and grenades. Throughout the siege, the Norwegians lived off whatever food they brought with them and it wasn't long before they started to starve.
After 4 days of countless shelling and attacks, the swedes launched their biggest assault on the fortress and had finally captured it along with the few survivors of what was left of the company. In a spectacle designed for the cameras and press, the swedes raised two flags: The flag of Sweden and the Union mark. After that, the Swedish commander brought the Norwegian command tasked with defending the city for a surrender ceremony. Salutes were exchanged, papers were signed and the order was given out to those troops that hadn't left the city by now to lay down their arms and surrender. One American journalist would call the Siege of Akershus, the 'Nordic Alamo'.
The Akershus fortress sustained heavy damage during the fighting that took place. After the war, the historic landmark was restored to its former glory but would become the site for Norway's commemoration of its fight for independence. The siege would become romanticized in various books and movies as a heroic last stand alongside the likes of Thermopylae, Alamo and Little Big Horn.
While confidence at home about crushing the secession was high among the Swedish elite, including the middle class, it was less so for the workers and farmers. The working class, having been seduced by the sweet sounds of socialism, weren't so enthusiastic about going to fight against a nation that voted for independence, voter fraud or not. With the outbreak of war, many on the left such as the Social Democrats began protesting against the war although they were a minority at first. To the king and the Riksdag, snuffing out the illegal secession of Norway was their utmost priority. They would find soon find out there was going to get more complicated.
Across Europe, the carnage unfolding in Norway was reported widely. The average citizen was glued to their papers reading every story about the war while the diplomats were busy at work finding a way to use the conflict for furthering their nation's interest. Their plans would soon be tested later on.
While the main focus of the campaign was the advance on Christiania, other areas of the country were also active. Despite having the numbers and equipment needed to conquer the country, the Swedes were having a hard time advancing in the countryside. A Swedish advance on the port city of Trondheim was stopped halfway there due to guerrilla attacks and the strong defenses constructed by the Norwegians. Not to mention, a raid on Narvik was also repulsed by the Norwegians as they knew the terrain like the back of their hand. The only way the Swedes could advance would be to traverse the various mountain passes and fjords that make up the country's distinct geography.
Norwegian army troops of the Jäger corps take up defensive positions on the road leading to Trondheim.
The Swedish chief of staff was living on borrowed time as the longer they took, the increasing chances of a great power involvement seemed more and more likely. Not to mention if the war went on for much longer, public opinion would slowly turn against it. They planned to advance along the coast, linking up with the landing troops in Kristiansand and Stavanger. The Storting, having moved to Bergen, was sending out requests for international support and even volunteers from other countries. Soon hundreds would arrive places like Iceland, Netherlands, Britain and more importantly Denmark. Enough Danes had volunteered to form a brigade and would become a renowned unit for its fighting prowess.
***
London
It was a quiet night. The streets were usually filled with those going home for the evening and enjoying the time with their families. Westminster was asleep and all of its MPs were either back in their constituencies or enjoying the night in their posh London homes. The Royal Family was soundly asleep in Buckingham Palace except the various guards posted around the palace. The beating heart of the most powerful nation on earth was sleeping, except for one man.
In 10 Downing street, Prime Minister Arthur Balfour was still awake in his office pondering about the events unfolding in Scandinavia. His greatest fear was a nation becoming fully aligned to German interests that would've joined the Central Powers. If that would happen, the gateway to the Baltic Sea would be closed and trade with Russia would be cut off. As a result, the British decided to place their support behind Norway.
After pondering for what seemed like forever, Balfour had come up with a plan to 'maintain the balance of power and protect British interests'. Before going to sleep, he drafted his plan for an upcoming meeting with his cabinet and eventually for Parliament. Always reminded of his wife nagging him to come to bed, he prepared notes for the day tomorrow and finally went to bed. In his head, he only had two words to say to those that would block Britain from gaining an advantage anywhere in Europe.
"Not today".
Part 2: The Call of Valhalla
As soon as the ultimatum came and pass, the Swedish army began marching across the border. Sweden had both the men and the equipment necessary to fight the lesser populated Norway. On the other hand, the Norwegians had the upper hand in tactics. Although they knew they couldn't stop the blonde-haired behemoths coming their way, they could at least slow it down for more time.
After capturing a couple of towns near the border, the swedes advanced on Fredrikstad thinking it was another walk in the park. What they couldn't expect was resistance. As soon as they got near the outskirts of the city, they were met by a hail of bullets coming from the trees and bushes. Several platoons of militia along with members from the shooting clubs had taken up positions around the city.
For 3 days, gunfire was exchanged from street to street until Fredrikstad was finally cleared of the militias and the Swedes were on the move again. With this news, the Norwegian government decided to deploy its regular troops to stall the Swedish advance for time and evacuate to another city somewhere east while its newly created but unrecognized foreign ministry looked for support in Europe or elsewhere.

A group of militiamen poses for the camera before marching out to engage the Swedes. The role of the militias played in the defense of Norway had greatly influenced strategic thinking regarding guerilla warfare for the new century.
As Scandinavians fought Scandinavians, the continent looked on in keen observation. Britain, keen on maintaining its trading interests, covertly backed the Norwegians along with France and Russia. The French sent token support to one-up their German rivals. As a country more aligned to Germany than Britain, Sweden received its support from the Germans which included military advisors. They also received powerful Krupp artillery guns from the Austrians as a token gesture of support.
As the Swedish army got closer and closer to Christiania, the Storting was packing up for a train ride to Bergen to escape arrest. In his diary, Prime Minister Christian Michelsen wrote:
"I don't know how tough this will be. The Swedes are not that far from here and I fear for my safety along with my family. If things don't change, this could be the end for me".
Indeed they did fear for their lives as the Swedes had issued arrest warrants for the capture of Michelsen and members of his cabinet. They had even put a 500,000 kronor bounty on their capture as well.
The seas weren't quiet either. When the ultimatum expired, the Swedish navy immediately sailed for Christiania. While doing so, they sent smaller fleets to the other coastal cities such as Kristiansand and Stavanger to land troops and outflank the Norwegians. Both landings were successful as resistance in the cities was minimal due to most of the Norwegian troops withdrawing deep into the countryside. Things seemed to be getting worse and worse.
On September 15, the Swedish army had reached the outskirts of the Norwegian capital. Wanting to capture the city unscathed, they sent an envoy inside to negotiate its surrender but the defenders ultimately refused the offer. Having no choice, the Swedish commander, Knut Bildt, ordered his forces to assault the city in one grand assault. Defending the city were a hodgepodge of militiamen, local volunteers, and some regular army units.
Like the Caroleans of a bygone era, the Swedes descended upon the city coming straight up from Lambertseter. They advanced under heavy fire among the suburbs as they inched closer and closer towards the heart of Christiania. One by one, the various city landmarks fell to the attackers as the Norwegians were in retreat across the city. The sounds of rifle and machine-gun fire along with the occasional artillery bombardment echoed across the capital at a constant occurrence. The fighting was so bad that one German officer present during the battle remarked: "It was like Peking all over again; the whole damn city was devastated".
Amidst the chaos, a company of soldiers and militiamen had entrenched themselves inside Akershus fortress. Knowing the city was about to fall, they nevertheless sat tight and waited for the Swedes to come. Once they came, they unleashed hell upon the attackers like there was no tomorrow. For days, the Swedes besieged the fortress, having it cut off from the outside world. Every assault the Swedes launched on Akershus were repelled, giving them no choice but to shell the fortress into ruins.
Despite the shelling, the defenders had sought shelter inside the castle's tunnels for cover and were their stockpiled ammunition was stored. Some of them had even brought machine guns and grenades. Throughout the siege, the Norwegians lived off whatever food they brought with them and it wasn't long before they started to starve.
After 4 days of countless shelling and attacks, the swedes launched their biggest assault on the fortress and had finally captured it along with the few survivors of what was left of the company. In a spectacle designed for the cameras and press, the swedes raised two flags: The flag of Sweden and the Union mark. After that, the Swedish commander brought the Norwegian command tasked with defending the city for a surrender ceremony. Salutes were exchanged, papers were signed and the order was given out to those troops that hadn't left the city by now to lay down their arms and surrender. One American journalist would call the Siege of Akershus, the 'Nordic Alamo'.
The Akershus fortress sustained heavy damage during the fighting that took place. After the war, the historic landmark was restored to its former glory but would become the site for Norway's commemoration of its fight for independence. The siege would become romanticized in various books and movies as a heroic last stand alongside the likes of Thermopylae, Alamo and Little Big Horn.
While confidence at home about crushing the secession was high among the Swedish elite, including the middle class, it was less so for the workers and farmers. The working class, having been seduced by the sweet sounds of socialism, weren't so enthusiastic about going to fight against a nation that voted for independence, voter fraud or not. With the outbreak of war, many on the left such as the Social Democrats began protesting against the war although they were a minority at first. To the king and the Riksdag, snuffing out the illegal secession of Norway was their utmost priority. They would find soon find out there was going to get more complicated.
Across Europe, the carnage unfolding in Norway was reported widely. The average citizen was glued to their papers reading every story about the war while the diplomats were busy at work finding a way to use the conflict for furthering their nation's interest. Their plans would soon be tested later on.
While the main focus of the campaign was the advance on Christiania, other areas of the country were also active. Despite having the numbers and equipment needed to conquer the country, the Swedes were having a hard time advancing in the countryside. A Swedish advance on the port city of Trondheim was stopped halfway there due to guerrilla attacks and the strong defenses constructed by the Norwegians. Not to mention, a raid on Narvik was also repulsed by the Norwegians as they knew the terrain like the back of their hand. The only way the Swedes could advance would be to traverse the various mountain passes and fjords that make up the country's distinct geography.
Norwegian army troops of the Jäger corps take up defensive positions on the road leading to Trondheim.
The Swedish chief of staff was living on borrowed time as the longer they took, the increasing chances of a great power involvement seemed more and more likely. Not to mention if the war went on for much longer, public opinion would slowly turn against it. They planned to advance along the coast, linking up with the landing troops in Kristiansand and Stavanger. The Storting, having moved to Bergen, was sending out requests for international support and even volunteers from other countries. Soon hundreds would arrive places like Iceland, Netherlands, Britain and more importantly Denmark. Enough Danes had volunteered to form a brigade and would become a renowned unit for its fighting prowess.
***
London
It was a quiet night. The streets were usually filled with those going home for the evening and enjoying the time with their families. Westminster was asleep and all of its MPs were either back in their constituencies or enjoying the night in their posh London homes. The Royal Family was soundly asleep in Buckingham Palace except the various guards posted around the palace. The beating heart of the most powerful nation on earth was sleeping, except for one man.
In 10 Downing street, Prime Minister Arthur Balfour was still awake in his office pondering about the events unfolding in Scandinavia. His greatest fear was a nation becoming fully aligned to German interests that would've joined the Central Powers. If that would happen, the gateway to the Baltic Sea would be closed and trade with Russia would be cut off. As a result, the British decided to place their support behind Norway.
After pondering for what seemed like forever, Balfour had come up with a plan to 'maintain the balance of power and protect British interests'. Before going to sleep, he drafted his plan for an upcoming meeting with his cabinet and eventually for Parliament. Always reminded of his wife nagging him to come to bed, he prepared notes for the day tomorrow and finally went to bed. In his head, he only had two words to say to those that would block Britain from gaining an advantage anywhere in Europe.
"Not today".
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Just retconned the previous post. It will now be three posts since the part 3 is the final part of this war.
German volunteer?
So sweden will join the cp as they will lose norway. Hopefully they can get finland then.
So sweden will join the cp as they will lose norway. Hopefully they can get finland then.
They hardly can take Finland. Finns are not go to easily join to Sweden, hardly even as personal union. Sweden might take Aland and put Bernadotte king to Finnish throne but hardly more.
Quite so. Annexing Finland would simply have the same problem for Sweden as keeping Norway. Namely that the Finns don't want to be a part of Sweden any more than the Norwegians did.
While this is broadly true, it is more complicated for the Finns dependent on the behaviour of Russia. In the OTL 20th century from around 1904 being dominated by someone other than Russia would not be preferable to independence but might be perceived as a least worst option if independence didn't look viable.
Well, I partly agree. In some ways Finns didn't quite "get" the concept of political independence in 1917-1918, looking at the OTL decisions at that time. The thing is, though, that while the Finnish (bourgeois/conservative) political leadership might have been ready to make Finland a German or, say, British client state/satellite to keep the country safe from the Russians, an actual annexation by Sweden would have been a quite different matter. Dependence on a friendly great power would have been seen as a lot more acceptable than entirely sacrificing independence to a small-to-middling state that might well not be able to protect Finland and in fact already once lost Finland to Russia as it was (after neglecting the defence of Finland for a long time before that). In other words, the cost (losing potential independence to be again dominated by Sweden) would have been seen as too great in comparison to the realistic benefits.
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