Have Herman survive the assassination attempt on hia life abd forge the Germanic tribea together into - if not a true kingdom - then at least a long lasting tribal Confederacy with his family at the top?
Now this would be an interesting TL. I doubt Burgundy would last. they had a pretty unique spot otl due to the HRE's less than existent centralization compared to France (though they themselves had a king who only held power in the ile-de-france for a while) ITTL, a surviving German state encourages French centralization which encourages English and German centralization and so on and so on. Burgundy, unless it conquered Italy, would struggle in that legal arms race. It was tiny compared to them. Especially because France plus Italy (per your Adelaide marrying the Heir of West Francia, assuming they pop a lad out quick enough) would be terrifying. Like actually the Western Roman Empire terrifying. Europe better hope they suffer the fate of otl's hre.Perhaps Otto the Great if he hasn't pursued becoming Holy Roman Emperor and subsequently based himself in Rome towards the end of his reign. That opportunity fell into his lap when Adelaide came to him for help and whom he took as his 2nd wife. His 1st wife was Edith of England, who he was very devoted to, so if she lives about as long as he does, perhaps Adelaide goes to someone else for help.
Otto's decision to seek the Imperial throne wasn't popular in Germany; his nobles accused him of neglecting his German subjects and had wanted him to marry a German noblewoman after Edith's death. At any rate, Otto's and Edith's son Liudolf would have become King of Germany and likely would have continued to consolidate his family's control over Germany and the other stem duchies. The succession of the German throne slowly becomes hereditary, while future German kings vie with French, Italian, and possibly even Burgundian kings to be the true heirs of the Roman Empire.
Where would Adelaide go if she manages to avoid imprisonment by her late husband's usurper Berengar? Otto was a key ally of Adelaide's brother King Conrad of Burgundy, while Otto's son Liudolf was already married to Adelaide's relative Ida. The heir to West Francia, Lothair, would have been about 10 years younger than Adelaide, but she might not have had too many other options.
Lombardy and Gothia seem iffy in general because they are very rich areas and France would want them, which with their massive population advantadge, could go very poorly for Germany. plus Lombardy could reasonably recreate an italian state and really would just be a thorn in Germany's side instead of an asset.This is a map of how an early 'German federation' could have looked like with the right PoDs:
View attachment 487118
The recreated 'Vandalia' would indeed refer to the eventual German-Wendish mixed population in the East.
Lombardy and Gothia seem iffy in general because they are very rich areas and France would want them, which with their massive population advantadge, could go very poorly for Germany. plus Lombardy could reasonably recreate an italian state and really would just be a thorn in Germany's side instead of an asset.
Burgundy is a maybe, but i can't help but feel France would end up with it, if not Italy.
Perhaps, but, and this might just be me, there is the fact that the HRE claimed to be Roman, but this Germany is claiming to be German, which i can't help but feel would at least wind up creating some tensions with the rest of the country, especially since it would be among the wealthiest provinces (at least until the age of exploration). And there being an early Germany as well as France, at that point italy seems far more plausible to me for some reasonAnd regarding Lombardy, the sense of pan-Italian state was gone for long time and never recovered until the 19th century.
Perhaps, but, and this might just be me, there is the fact that the HRE claimed to be Roman, but this Germany is claiming to be German, which i can't help but feel would at least wind up creating some tensions with the rest of the country, especially since it would be among the wealthiest provinces (at least until the age of exploration). And there being an early Germany as well as France, at that point italy seems far more plausible to me for some reason
Now this would be an interesting TL. I doubt Burgundy would last. they had a pretty unique spot otl due to the HRE's less than existent centralization compared to France (though they themselves had a king who only held power in the ile-de-france for a while) ITTL, a surviving German state encourages French centralization which encourages English and German centralization and so on and so on. Burgundy, unless it conquered Italy, would struggle in that legal arms race. It was tiny compared to them. Especially because France plus Italy (per your Adelaide marrying the Heir of West Francia, assuming they pop a lad out quick enough) would be terrifying. Like actually the Western Roman Empire terrifying. Europe better hope they suffer the fate of otl's hre.
but Germany participating in the Age of Exploration would be fun.
Perhaps Otto the Great if he hasn't pursued becoming Holy Roman Emperor and subsequently based himself in Rome towards the end of his reign. That opportunity fell into his lap when Adelaide came to him for help and whom he took as his 2nd wife. His 1st wife was Edith of England, who he was very devoted to, so if she lives about as long as he does, perhaps Adelaide goes to someone else for help.
Otto's decision to seek the Imperial throne wasn't popular in Germany; his nobles accused him of neglecting his German subjects and had wanted him to marry a German noblewoman after Edith's death. At any rate, Otto's and Edith's son Liudolf would have become King of Germany and likely would have continued to consolidate his family's control over Germany and the other stem duchies. The succession of the German throne slowly becomes hereditary, while future German kings vie with French, Italian, and possibly even Burgundian kings to be the true heirs of the Roman Empire.
Where would Adelaide go if she manages to avoid imprisonment by her late husband's usurper Berengar? Otto was a key ally of Adelaide's brother King Conrad of Burgundy, while Otto's son Liudolf was already married to Adelaide's relative Ida. The heir to West Francia, Lothair, would have been about 10 years younger than Adelaide, but she might not have had too many other options.
That's basically what I was saying. In TTL, this hypothetical king of Francia and Italy would want to conquer Burgundy to effectively rule. And then probably set up Provence as a capital since it would be the best place between the kingdoms. Or somewhere in SwitzerlandFor West Francia to effectively control or even be able to move their armies into Italy, West Francia would, especially in the long run, need to indirectly or directly control Burgundy (Arelat). Since Burgundy blocks West Francia from direct access to Italy. Their focus will shift to there, which ITTL would give East Francia an even better than IOTL position to incorporate Lotharingia (Upper Lorraine, Lower Lorraine & Frisia).
A West Francian HRE in many ways will have similar weaknesses as the OTL HRE, an Emperor too focused on Italy will get difficulties in West France and vice versa.
Define Germany, does the HRE counts?
That's basically what I was saying. In TTL, this hypothetical king of Francia and Italy would want to conquer Burgundy to effectively rule. And then probably set up Provence as a capital since it would be the best place between the kingdoms. Or somewhere in Switzerland
Maybe more succesful Arabs push the franks to the Rhine and we sees a 'germany, as that map?In fact, the early HRE encompassed all the German-speaking lands (even the 'German in broad sense' ones like Switzerland and the Low Countries), something that the later German Empire did not.
If that 'King of Francia, Burgundy and Italy' would move the capital to the Mediterranean coast, he could say goodbye to their lands north of the Loire.
This is a map of how an early 'German federation' could have looked like with the right PoDs:
View attachment 487118
The recreated 'Vandalia' would indeed refer to the eventual German-Wendish mixed population in the East.