I would say that you only need to take a look in any H.S. History Book from OTL published before 1980 to get an answer. They are full of things that are a complete whitewash at best and an atrocity unto themselves at worst.
Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II
- Thread starter Peabody-Martini
- Start date
I would say that you only need to take a look in any H.S. History Book from OTL published before 1980 to get an answer. They are full of things that are a complete whitewash at best and an atrocity unto themselves at worst.
Maybe also offer to introduce the missus to a good lawyer.
ferdi254
Banned
And OTL Saddam Hussein might have been very surprised to hear that the US will never support a dictator in an aggressive war...
And just who was the guy who got all the blame for the rockets to Contras sales... yes Oliver north surely the only and sole culprit who did bad and illegal things with none of his superiors having any idea about it.
And can somebody please help me to remember why banana republics are called banana republics? I‘m not sure but I sort of remember the words United Fruit Company.
Irony off
And just who was the guy who got all the blame for the rockets to Contras sales... yes Oliver north surely the only and sole culprit who did bad and illegal things with none of his superiors having any idea about it.
And can somebody please help me to remember why banana republics are called banana republics? I‘m not sure but I sort of remember the words United Fruit Company.
Irony off
To be fair to the American aide with the slanted view of history in this story, this probably is not unique to him or Americans. I would assume that without the impetus of the holocaust, the major powers in this time line all probably haven't looked to critically at their own histories. All the European powers have their own skeletons in their closet at this point and probably aren't teaching their histories nearly as objectively and critically as would eventually become the norm in OTL.
Even the much nicer Germany ITL apparently hasn't really come to grips with the Herero and Nama genocide yet apparently. And I expect that the sun nevers sets on people who have something uncomplimentary to say about the British Empire.
Disturbingly enough a lot of ideas and tactics that became un- (or at least less-)thinkable after WWII probably haven't completely become taboo here. From eugenics to concentration camps people probably still haven't quite given up on many horrible things yet.
The guy with the rose tinted glasses about his country likely is far from alone.
Are you seriously going to conflate supporting dictatorships to ensure the plantations don't burn and the cash crops flow with full on, state vs state warfare? Seriously?
Again, no boots on the ground. And I addressed united fruit above.
Do you not think that the Indian Wars were aggressive expansionist wars by America? Like it or not, America has had imperialistic ambition from the beginning, and has often enforced it militarily.
State vs non-state warfare is still warfare. And it wasn’t just monetary support—we literally occupied Nicaragua for two decades, while simultaneously invading other places that didn’t follow our decrees!
State vs non-state warfare is still warfare. And it wasn’t just monetary support—we literally occupied Nicaragua for two decades, while simultaneously invading other places that didn’t follow our decrees!
He knows that, and also he know that if he tries to get too much outside the "official" line that DC is spewing, any chance of trying to minimize this mess will end up with him being recalled and dismissed, and Harriman putting a "Yes-Man" that would do nothing but ensure that a conflict will happen out of ignorance and hypocrisy.....
And you are more than right in your analysis of this situation, but never underestimate the ego of Adlai Stevenson as he knows that whoever is the Democratic nominee in 1964 is going to lose but the question is going to be "How Bad?"
Stevenson wants to save the party even if it means throwing Harriman under the bus, and he can do this by making and announcing a deal that the American people will accept and Harriman will have to accept.
If you let me:
For FREEDOM*
1945-46 China
1950-53 Korea, China
1954 Guatemala
1958 Indonesia
1959-61 Cuba
1960 Guatemala
1961-73 Vietnam
1964 Congo
1964-73 Laos
1965 Peru
1967-69 Guatemala
1969-70 Cambodia
1983 Grenada
1983-84 Lebanon
1980s Nicaragua
1980s El Salvador
1986 Libya
1987 Iran
1989 Panama
1991 Iraq
1993 Somalia
1998 Sudan
1998 Afghanistan
1999 Yugoslavia
2001-? Afghanistan
2003-? Iraq
2011 Libya
2012 Syria
2014 Ukraine
2015 Yemen
Comming soon: Venezuela, Iran.
*terms and conditions may apply
To paraphrase, we are none of us the villain of our own stories. Presumably other powers ITTL also have their own rose-colored histories, conveniently overlooking any sordid past
.... He is an Ambassador. Meaning that no matter how important its the position, he's actually SUBORDINATE to the orders of the State Department.
He may have his Payback in 1964 if Harriman fucks up royally... But otherwise, at this point, he is subordinate to the orders of Harriman, and once again, it applies what I said... He is playing a game of equilibrium over a rope, knowing that the government that he represents is fucking up by the numbers, and he is trying to prevent that shit truly hits the fan, however he's limited by the directives from DC, and if he overstepped, he will be pulled out, and instead things truly and well go bad as rather than him, an ignorant yes-man will be in the position and end up enraging the Germans and Koreans.....
Part 95, Chapter 1486
Chapter One Thousand Four Hundred Eighty-Six
14th April 1962
Tempelhof, Berlin
It was spring. Whatever that even meant. Zella had a lot of time to think about things over the last few weeks. Her life and how quickly and easily it had turned out for her to mess everything up. Aurora was still dating Helmut. Zella didn’t see the appeal that he had for her, Helmut was a bit of a stiff. Then there was Kiki. She liked Ben because he was safe, but how long was Kiki going to be happy with that? Then Kiki given Zella a whispered confession before she had left about how she had slept with him. She might have asked what on Earth Kiki was thinking to have done such a thing, but recent events had revealed that Zella was no better.
Leaning against her motorcycle Zella watched the house as events unfolded. He came home, looking smug and full of himself as he always did, so full of himself that it didn’t seem to occur to him as to why she was there. According to the University he had resigned his Professorship and had taken a new teaching job in Italy. He smirked when he saw Zella standing there as he walked up to his front door. It didn’t matter what Zella’s father had done to him or would do if he didn’t leave the country. He thought he had won. It was then that he discovered that his key no longer fit the lock on the door. He pounded on the door for a minute until his wife answered. It was too far away for Zella to hear the conversation, but it was clear that he was trying to sweettalk his way out of the predicament that he had suddenly found himself in. It clearly wasn’t working this time.
Earlier that day, Zella had talked to her, accompanied by a few other girls from Zella’s class who all said more or less the same story. Her husband had played on their fears and insecurities, gave them attention of the sort they were desperate for and then he had given them the boot when he tired of them. Apparently, his thing was to sabotage whatever contraception they used so that there was a chance he could always maintain one up on them even after he was gone. For the life of her, Zella couldn’t figure out how she had fallen for that sort of bullshit. She had learned her lesson and as it turned out he was about to get taught one.
There was a thud, and Zella saw him go down with blood and bits of his teeth flying through the air. His wife had just responded to his attempt to sweettalk her by hitting him in the face with a lead mallet. That was far more than Zella had imagined might happen. Then while he was there on the ground trying to get up his wife kept hitting him, in the crotch. The thud of the mallet striking the sidewalk and him as she did her best to systematically flatten his balls filled the air, along with the strangled noises he was making.
Looking over, Zella saw that the neighbors were watching and probably one or more of them would have called the police by now. Not wanting to stick around for that part of the show, Zella kicked her motorcycle to life. The last he saw of her was the satisfied smile she had as she rode away.
As it had turned out, John Elis was right about how to handle matters like this.
Washington D.C.
It was strange, Gloria felt completely unwelcome here even though everyone around her had done their best otherwise. This vast cemetery had originally been the estate of Robert E. Lee. The Union Army had used it to bury their dead as the Lee family had watched their property was turned to that purpose. It had taken time for Jonny’s body to be repatriated and in that time, Gloria had gotten a call from his parents wanting to know if she was going to be alright. The whole thing was just obscene. Gloria had known that the two of them had been drifting apart personally and professionally for a long time. She had just felt that abruptly breaking up with him by impersonal means while he was in China would have been wrong. Jonny deserved better than that. Then she had read in the newspaper that he had died while serving as an advisor to the Chinese Army. It was a bit late to settle things between the two them after that.
Gloria watched as the Military funeral played out. Parker should be here at least, Gloria thought to herself. The two of them went way back. There were the others as well. Cooper, Valenzuela, Mullens, Kravitz or Spooner. Jonny had talked a lot about them in his occasional letters. They had been as close as family to him. The mission in China, as was the official line though Gloria knew it was really in Korea, was ongoing, so they were all thousands of miles away as this unfolded. As the bugler concluded, that was it. There was nothing more to say or do.
As Gloria started to leave, she felt a hand touch her shoulder. Turning she saw that it was Mrs. Cassey. “Thank you for coming Gloria” She said.
“I’m sorry, I don’t know if it’s right for me to be here” Gloria replied.
“You did your best” Mrs. Cassey said, “I had hoped that the two of you would eventually work out, but John was never the type to settle down. If not the Army or his cars, there would have always been something else to draw him away. I don’t know if you would have lasted much longer together.”
That almost made Gloria feel better about the situation.
14th April 1962
Tempelhof, Berlin
It was spring. Whatever that even meant. Zella had a lot of time to think about things over the last few weeks. Her life and how quickly and easily it had turned out for her to mess everything up. Aurora was still dating Helmut. Zella didn’t see the appeal that he had for her, Helmut was a bit of a stiff. Then there was Kiki. She liked Ben because he was safe, but how long was Kiki going to be happy with that? Then Kiki given Zella a whispered confession before she had left about how she had slept with him. She might have asked what on Earth Kiki was thinking to have done such a thing, but recent events had revealed that Zella was no better.
Leaning against her motorcycle Zella watched the house as events unfolded. He came home, looking smug and full of himself as he always did, so full of himself that it didn’t seem to occur to him as to why she was there. According to the University he had resigned his Professorship and had taken a new teaching job in Italy. He smirked when he saw Zella standing there as he walked up to his front door. It didn’t matter what Zella’s father had done to him or would do if he didn’t leave the country. He thought he had won. It was then that he discovered that his key no longer fit the lock on the door. He pounded on the door for a minute until his wife answered. It was too far away for Zella to hear the conversation, but it was clear that he was trying to sweettalk his way out of the predicament that he had suddenly found himself in. It clearly wasn’t working this time.
Earlier that day, Zella had talked to her, accompanied by a few other girls from Zella’s class who all said more or less the same story. Her husband had played on their fears and insecurities, gave them attention of the sort they were desperate for and then he had given them the boot when he tired of them. Apparently, his thing was to sabotage whatever contraception they used so that there was a chance he could always maintain one up on them even after he was gone. For the life of her, Zella couldn’t figure out how she had fallen for that sort of bullshit. She had learned her lesson and as it turned out he was about to get taught one.
There was a thud, and Zella saw him go down with blood and bits of his teeth flying through the air. His wife had just responded to his attempt to sweettalk her by hitting him in the face with a lead mallet. That was far more than Zella had imagined might happen. Then while he was there on the ground trying to get up his wife kept hitting him, in the crotch. The thud of the mallet striking the sidewalk and him as she did her best to systematically flatten his balls filled the air, along with the strangled noises he was making.
Looking over, Zella saw that the neighbors were watching and probably one or more of them would have called the police by now. Not wanting to stick around for that part of the show, Zella kicked her motorcycle to life. The last he saw of her was the satisfied smile she had as she rode away.
As it had turned out, John Elis was right about how to handle matters like this.
Washington D.C.
It was strange, Gloria felt completely unwelcome here even though everyone around her had done their best otherwise. This vast cemetery had originally been the estate of Robert E. Lee. The Union Army had used it to bury their dead as the Lee family had watched their property was turned to that purpose. It had taken time for Jonny’s body to be repatriated and in that time, Gloria had gotten a call from his parents wanting to know if she was going to be alright. The whole thing was just obscene. Gloria had known that the two of them had been drifting apart personally and professionally for a long time. She had just felt that abruptly breaking up with him by impersonal means while he was in China would have been wrong. Jonny deserved better than that. Then she had read in the newspaper that he had died while serving as an advisor to the Chinese Army. It was a bit late to settle things between the two them after that.
Gloria watched as the Military funeral played out. Parker should be here at least, Gloria thought to herself. The two of them went way back. There were the others as well. Cooper, Valenzuela, Mullens, Kravitz or Spooner. Jonny had talked a lot about them in his occasional letters. They had been as close as family to him. The mission in China, as was the official line though Gloria knew it was really in Korea, was ongoing, so they were all thousands of miles away as this unfolded. As the bugler concluded, that was it. There was nothing more to say or do.
As Gloria started to leave, she felt a hand touch her shoulder. Turning she saw that it was Mrs. Cassey. “Thank you for coming Gloria” She said.
“I’m sorry, I don’t know if it’s right for me to be here” Gloria replied.
“You did your best” Mrs. Cassey said, “I had hoped that the two of you would eventually work out, but John was never the type to settle down. If not the Army or his cars, there would have always been something else to draw him away. I don’t know if you would have lasted much longer together.”
That almost made Gloria feel better about the situation.
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Because he didn't realize it until he pushed her a touch too far.
Because he didn't know, else he wouldn't have married her in the first place. I kind of doubt this guy ever witnessed his wife going to town with a hammer on somebody, before getting a front row seat.
And, well, some people are just a little bit maladjusted. They seem normal, hell, they act normal until something sets them off. Then... well, it's hammertime.
The type of idiot who thinks they will never be caught... even after they have been.
Probably because they don't consider other people to be, well, people, so who cares what they might think or feel, right? They're just potential playthings, right? And as for the potential for retaliation or any form of negative consequences? A minor detail, never going to happen, until it does.
Then its all THEIR fault.
As for the aforementioned idiot in this case, I'm pretty sure he'd would have preferred the pack of rabid dogs...