If They Want It Then They Can Have It.

Wolf of Badenoch

Donor
Gladsome said:
It is supposed to be a compromise flag, no? I imagine the republican colours are equally unsatisfactory to unionists.

And under the arrangement that seems to be coming closer to establishment thus far ITTL, Northern Ireland is still a part of the United Kingdom.
Click to expand...

You are of course, right but you need to accept that the the symbol implicit in the crown is perhaps more objectionable to the Nationalist community than the Union flag. Equally, the Red Hand may be the symbol for the province of Ulster but over time it has become the property of the Loyalist community. Compare with the Harp as a symbol for the Republic of Ireland/Eire. There's a well-known pub in the centre of Belfast called "The Crown" which has a mosaic representation of a crown on its threshold. The Nationalists (who used to frequent the pub) take great delight in walking on the symbol.
iu.jpeg
 

nezza

I'll explain:

Marr 2007

"The plan was to turn Ulster into a "hybrid" between an standalone statelet within the UK and a joint special administrative region. Confused? read on.

Both London and Dublin realised that there was no cut and dry answer. So the theory was this 'how about a way of giving the residents a new, united identity. not overtly British and not overtly Irish but Ulsterian.

(The flags were just picked at random)
 

Wolf of Badenoch

Donor
nezza said:
I'll explain:

Marr 2007

"The plan was to turn Ulster into a "hybrid" between an standalone statelet within the UK and a joint special administrative region. Confused? read on.

Both London and Dublin realised that there was no cut and dry answer. So the theory was this 'how about a way of giving the residents a new, united identity. not overtly British and not overtly Irish but Ulsterian.

(The flags were just picked at random)
Click to expand...
Sort, Nezza, I don't mean to be picky and understand what you are trying to do. However please believe me when I say that any new emblem for Ulster really has to avoid setting Nationalists against Loyalists and vice verse. the Red Hand, the Crown or the Harp will simply be counter productive. Symbols matter desperately in the province. (See the recent story of the NI government employee awarded compensation because he had to work in a building containing pictures of HM Queen Elizabeth. I'd go with the Green/White/Red/White/ Orange diagonals.
 

nezza

No need to apologise Wolf. Trying to find any kind of flag that can appeal to both is a near impossible task. I think the best thing to do is to leave the flags to the imagination and carry on. Thanks for the input.
 

nezza

Moving on from the flags.

PRINCIPAL ELEMENTS OF THE STATELET OF ULSTER
1. 90 seat Assembly with legislative powers over all aspects except Financial, Foreign and Defence. Elected via single transferable vote
2. Executive Council
3. Direct communications between Chief Minister, Deputy Chief Minister, British Prime Minister and Irish Taoiseach.
4. Bi-partisan Housing Authority
5. Bi-partisan Religious Affairs Authority.
6. Bi-partisan Justice and Civil Rights Authority.
7. Peaceful right to freedom of speech and expression
8.Increased co-operation on Border matters
9. Ulster Bill of Rights
10.Ulster Constitution
 

nezza

Marr

"It's hard to imagine how such a constitutional settlement came into being. Up until the early 1970's Ulster was left to its own devices. There was even a time when the UK Parliament was prevented from discussing matters in the province.

A lot of the basis of the change was due in no small part to the events of Newry. The outpouring of grief and anger from both sides made it crystal clear to both London and Dublin that Ulster was their problem and not the UN's.

Much has been made of Wilson's prevarication and 'fudging' of issues but the creation of the settlement will and should go down as a big plus in his record"
 

nezza

BBC Panorama 12th September 1974

"Good Evening. Tonight on Panorama we examine one of the most momentous days in Northern Ireland's history. The signing of the new constitutional convention of the province by leaders of both the UK and Ireland as well as senior political figures from all sides of the conflict. Mr Wilson, Mr Heath, Mr Cosgrave as well as leaders of the Unionist and Nationalist communities made a solemn vow to govern and live in the province in peace. Peter Taylor has this report from Belfast"
 

nezza

Tony Benn 12th September 1974

"Wilson is being his usual cagey self. He announced that a small 'administrative' unit of British officials and 'diplomatic protection' troops, the SAS are to return to Belfast to oversee the implementation of the new administration. He sees this as a way of mollifying the Paisleyites. Roy Mason told me this morning though that he's got a plane on permanent standby at Belfast Airport in case anything happens and the unit can leave at a moment's notice.
 

nezza

11th October 1974
BBC NI

"And there is a sensational result from Fermanagh and South Tyrone. The Leader of the Ulster Unionist Party Mr Harry West has lost his seat to the Independent Nationalist Frank Maguire..."
 

nezza

Firstly I want to say a heartfelt thanks to all the subscribers. I really appreciate it.

Secondly I feel I have to give some depth to the idea of the Ulster Statelet:

The theory is that if the residents of Ulster both unionist and nationalist were "given a new identity" neither British or Irish but "Ulsterian" then that would over a long, long period of time reduce some of the tensions. Likewise if civil rights were put front and centre then the strife over discrimination by the majority over the minority would also lessen. By all means could the residents maintain their affinity/loyalty to the UK or the ROI but the notion of another combined identity could "humanise the conflict"
 

Wolf of Badenoch

Donor
Can I suggest that the abolition of church schools be a foundation of the Ulsterian system? - as long as these exist, the prejudices and discrimination will continue.
 

nezza

OUTLINE OF THE ULSTER ASSEMBLY

The new assembly chamber will follow the standard parliamentary layout with a couple of exception. The Chief and Assistant Chief Minister will sit together in between the assembly members with the speaker and clerks behind.

There will also be a dedicated area for civil servants and tv cameras as proceedings will be recorded and broadcast on both UTV/ITN and RTE.

StormontSenate.JPG
 
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