While I'm no fan of the Abbasid Caliphs I eagerly await the Crusaders falling victim to their own hubris.
And All Nations Shall Gather To It - Volume I: The Abode of Peace
- Thread starter Ricard (i.e. Rdffigueira)
- Start date
Welp it gonna be fun while it lasted butttt here my prediction
It seem the king of France is gonna be a constant source of trouble in the crusades and I suspect that Armenia will become a vassal state with some of it incorporated into Rome
Edessa gonna be a source of trouble between the Roman because you know the romans are annexing as much of that as they can to a point. I suspect that the Roman will help to a degree in the campaign for Babylon but they will not go the whole way and the crusaders will ultimately fail in constant of Babylon but establish many crusaders states in northern meospamtia
The crusade I think will also began to farcture around the point of the invasion of Babylon
It seem the king of France is gonna be a constant source of trouble in the crusades and I suspect that Armenia will become a vassal state with some of it incorporated into Rome
Edessa gonna be a source of trouble between the Roman because you know the romans are annexing as much of that as they can to a point. I suspect that the Roman will help to a degree in the campaign for Babylon but they will not go the whole way and the crusaders will ultimately fail in constant of Babylon but establish many crusaders states in northern meospamtia
The crusade I think will also began to farcture around the point of the invasion of Babylon
Personally, I'm not sure if Philip II gets out of this one alive. I could see him as one of the biggest campaigners for a Babylon adventure, only to fall in battle once they arrive - which would serve him right. This, of course, leads to political back biting among the other members of the Second Crusade who pull back to the Crusader States. Since Armenia was line and Syria is secure, it still counts as a win, but the Second Crusade is generally remembered as the Crusaders getting over confident and cocky, and this leading to it's less than stellar pwrformance.
Skallagrim
Banned
Hubris is never a good idea. This is glory-seeking, not a sound long-term strategy. (Meanwhile, the Byzantines are getting everything they could wish out of this. Good for them.)
It would be much better to secure Palmyra and Bosra, then restore Edessa and Armenia as planned, give Mosul a kicking from which it it will never recover, and let that be the end of the matter. Forget about Baghdad. Then just consolidate thoroughly, and when you're secure, make a play for Egypt.
It would be much better to secure Palmyra and Bosra, then restore Edessa and Armenia as planned, give Mosul a kicking from which it it will never recover, and let that be the end of the matter. Forget about Baghdad. Then just consolidate thoroughly, and when you're secure, make a play for Egypt.
Well, if the French will fall, their prestige and influence in the Levant will be damaged, something the Latins already present won't be totally unhappy for it. But at the same time, safety in the East may justify such support. Then of course the dream of new lands and domain of the Middle East and the twilight of Islam will surely play a huge role.
Anyway, all depends by the degree of a potential defeat. At the worse, if would ravage part of Iraq, so is not it wouldn't be an useless feat. Philip will risk much. But for the crusaders, it would be taking a breath. Securing the rest of Syria would be worth the cost of this war.
Anyway, all depends by the degree of a potential defeat. At the worse, if would ravage part of Iraq, so is not it wouldn't be an useless feat. Philip will risk much. But for the crusaders, it would be taking a breath. Securing the rest of Syria would be worth the cost of this war.
![[totally a legit person]](/forum/data/avatars/m/134/134906.jpg?1617940240){kind=avatar}
The absolute best-case scenario for this campaign is a roman Armenia and Edesa, many French crusader-states in northern Mesopotamia, a destroyed Baghdad, and Mosul, and hopefully not losing their entire army to starvation, plague, heatstroke, and skirmishes. The Absolute worst-case scenario is a failure for the whole campaign, whilst destroying their armies in the desert due to famine, plague, heatstroke, and complete with desertion, and maybe an early black death if they are (un)lucky enough. But, whatever does happen to their army, they will not capture ancient Babylonia and Baghdad no matter what misbegotten fortune happens to their enemy's armies they will not. unless you are an absolute paramount of historical and literary skills, in which case please prove me wrong I, and many others (I presume) like interesting things happening with a reason behind it, I think you could pull it off. of course, the "Mongols" will just swoop right in there if you do that, and just cause an almost civilization-destroying campaign to happen which unites Christendom and Islam in a war of their own preservation.
Even if they fail to take Baghdad the damage they do to its armies and fortresses will give the crusaders some breathing room.
And boy oh boy the Romans are really gobbling up territory. Like some goddamn hungry hungry hippos.
And boy oh boy the Romans are really gobbling up territory. Like some goddamn hungry hungry hippos.
Wow, that was early! Well, if it's to stock on the upcoming drought...
On another note
I think I have said enough about the fact that there's no point in going east for the Crusaders. Most of Syria will fall back right on the Muslims' lap. So what will convince the Defenders of the Holy Sepulcher to stop chasing the East? And if not, could this start a long period of decline, or even worse, an eventual collapse?
On another note
I think I have said enough about the fact that there's no point in going east for the Crusaders. Most of Syria will fall back right on the Muslims' lap. So what will convince the Defenders of the Holy Sepulcher to stop chasing the East? And if not, could this start a long period of decline, or even worse, an eventual collapse?
Last edited:
A conquest of Baghdad seems almost just crazy with how just maintaining and supplying a Garrison were be.
Just make sense to destroy the local infrastructure and burn the farmlands around.
If they do take the city then loot and burn it down before the big Muslim counterattack arrives.
Just make sense to destroy the local infrastructure and burn the farmlands around.
If they do take the city then loot and burn it down before the big Muslim counterattack arrives.
jocay
Banned
I don't expect the Byzantines to fulfill their objectives in restoring the Kingdom of Armenia. Any Armenian state, even if restored by Constantinopolitan armies, will eventually have designs on Edessa and Cilicia down the line, even with the threat of Turkish and Caliphal armies breathing down their neck. Better to take the lion's share of greater Armenia and allot the leftovers to compliant vassals. Get revenge for Edessa, burn Mosul to the ground, grant the remaining towns and cities to King Philip's and Prince Roger's retainers but Baghdad. That's the lion's den and as numerous as the Christian armies are, they're not Alexander's Macedonians nor the Mongols. Taking Baghdad would be in essence like taking Constantinople and even if they did, it would be seen as a rallying cry that would motivate every Islamic power neighboring the Crusader State and Byzantium to attack.
I thought that they would give armenia to Cilicia, or keep it for themselves as brand spanking new imperial Rhoman teritory under the Basileus' control.
I wouldn't go that far but it would be no easy fight which is understating it
Read: 'This author is a patient and diligent writer. Just not writing-about-the-HRE levels of patience and diligence'.
Eh. Not sure about this. Saracen scimitars are a bit of a myth. The earliest sabres are from the steppe and didn't really become a major thing until the Turks overran the Black Sea domains.
The middle weapon is a Turkish kilij from the high medieval period. The rest are fairly good examples of the swords used by Saracen soldiers (those who could afford a fine sword).
Let the title creep in the Holy Land begin? Guess it won’t be belong before we see the Prince become King, if only to assert authority over these French dukes.
Hopefully John II will be able to keep the Crusaders focused on Armenia and the Euphrates frontier. Although I suspect he won’t mind too much if they embark on a doomed expedition into Mesopotamia after they serve the Empire’s purposes.
Hopefully John II will be able to keep the Crusaders focused on Armenia and the Euphrates frontier. Although I suspect he won’t mind too much if they embark on a doomed expedition into Mesopotamia after they serve the Empire’s purposes.