Map Thread XIX
- Thread starter water123
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Sorry to be pedantic, but your post never specified a year. All you said was that you ISOT'd Australia. New Zealand was never part of Australia - New South Wales was the initial Australian colony, but it wasn't Australia. Sending the colony of New South Wales at its greatest extent to a virgin earth is not the same as sending "Australia". In the early 19th/late 18th Century, 'Australia' referred to the continent, not the colonised parts, and New Zealand is not part of the Australian continent, either.
It's a particular pet peeve of mine when people decide toss New Zealand randomly into the Australian Federation without any thought to the actual reasons why New Zealand didn't join in the first place in real-world history.
What I'm trying to do is show the 4 countries (or their predecessors/ initial colony) at their earliest extent.
Warning: adjacent to contemporary politics. I wish there was a current-politics map thread.
On 24 June 2016, an ASB decides to precisely duplicate the British Isles, all the infrastructure etc... with the sole exception of the people, who aren't duplicated but are instead split between the two copies.
Copy 1: everyone in the UK who supports Britain leaving the EU comes along here... this copy of the British Isles is put next to America and Canada, just touching both of them. for many people who wanted Brexit, their dream has come true. their Britain has now physically exited the European continent.
the few people in Ireland who want Ireland to exit the EU also come along with them.
the map of their new location may be seen in this post I made a while ago.
Copy 2: everyone who wants Britain to remain within the EU comes along here. (as does everyone in Ireland who wants Ireland to stay in the EU). this copy of the British Isles remains mostly in the same place, but is moved southeast a little bit, smooshing England and France into each other. any uneven gaps are filled in.
Anyone who doesn't have a strong opinion on the EU... well, the ASB will just decide, in its best judgement, which copy any and all people will end up in.
This is what the UK-France border region looks like a few years later (on Google Maps). The twin cities of Calais-Folkestone unfortunately aren't coastal any more; their ports dried up with the smooshing-together. Also, they've kinda merged into each other, as following the UK's accession to the Schengen Area there aren't any border checks between them.
statistics.
population of UK pre-split: 65.6 million
- population of leave-UK post-split: 34 million
- population of remain-UK post-split: 31.6 million
population of Ireland pre-split: 4.8 million
- population of leave-Ireland post-split: 0.7 million
- population of remain-Ireland post-split: 4.1 million
Worlda map of both sets of the British Isles. Leave on the left near America, Remain still in Europe.
I'm a bit tempted to try to make a timeline of this. I've never written a timeline before, but it feels like a fascinating idea to start off with.
Working out just what happens with a modern country when its population is suddenly cut in half (well, one immediate benefit is that the housing crisis is solved!)
Not to mention the cultural impact of a supernatural event... and the immediate problem of both copies of a formerly-island country now having land borders (remain-UK with France, and leave-UK with the USA and Canada). And also the internet and phone wires will have been cut off and so both copies of the British Isles will be kinda isolated from communication until new ones are laid... and also families, social groups, etc, are now suddenly split, a long way across the world from each other...
Definitely tempted to explore this concept more, and maybe make a TL of it, when I'm in the right mood for it.
On 24 June 2016, an ASB decides to precisely duplicate the British Isles, all the infrastructure etc... with the sole exception of the people, who aren't duplicated but are instead split between the two copies.
Copy 1: everyone in the UK who supports Britain leaving the EU comes along here... this copy of the British Isles is put next to America and Canada, just touching both of them. for many people who wanted Brexit, their dream has come true. their Britain has now physically exited the European continent.
the few people in Ireland who want Ireland to exit the EU also come along with them.
the map of their new location may be seen in this post I made a while ago.
Copy 2: everyone who wants Britain to remain within the EU comes along here. (as does everyone in Ireland who wants Ireland to stay in the EU). this copy of the British Isles remains mostly in the same place, but is moved southeast a little bit, smooshing England and France into each other. any uneven gaps are filled in.
Anyone who doesn't have a strong opinion on the EU... well, the ASB will just decide, in its best judgement, which copy any and all people will end up in.
This is what the UK-France border region looks like a few years later (on Google Maps). The twin cities of Calais-Folkestone unfortunately aren't coastal any more; their ports dried up with the smooshing-together. Also, they've kinda merged into each other, as following the UK's accession to the Schengen Area there aren't any border checks between them.
statistics.
population of UK pre-split: 65.6 million
- population of leave-UK post-split: 34 million
- population of remain-UK post-split: 31.6 million
population of Ireland pre-split: 4.8 million
- population of leave-Ireland post-split: 0.7 million
- population of remain-Ireland post-split: 4.1 million
Worlda map of both sets of the British Isles. Leave on the left near America, Remain still in Europe.
I'm a bit tempted to try to make a timeline of this. I've never written a timeline before, but it feels like a fascinating idea to start off with.
Working out just what happens with a modern country when its population is suddenly cut in half (well, one immediate benefit is that the housing crisis is solved!)
Not to mention the cultural impact of a supernatural event... and the immediate problem of both copies of a formerly-island country now having land borders (remain-UK with France, and leave-UK with the USA and Canada). And also the internet and phone wires will have been cut off and so both copies of the British Isles will be kinda isolated from communication until new ones are laid... and also families, social groups, etc, are now suddenly split, a long way across the world from each other...
Definitely tempted to explore this concept more, and maybe make a TL of it, when I'm in the right mood for it.
I would definitely follow such a timeline. Also both copies of the UK being peninsula's might really mess with Ocean currents. Canada's vancouver island is also no longer an island and i wonder what the future of the new sea between Pacific Great britain and washington state high hold. I wonder if over time it might become less salty from massive rivers like the Columbia nad frazer draining into it... kinda like the baltic.
Yep. I think the biggest shift to ocean currents would be in the North Sea- the climate there will likely change substantially. I expect it'd get colder.
Agreed, this seems likely.
In fact, the outflow of this new sea (between Vancouver Island and the Canadian mainland) will be much narrower than the Oresund at the mouth of the Baltic... it wouldn't surprise me if the new sea eventually became near-freshwater.
I just added up some rough numbers and: the average discharge for the Columbia is more than the sum average discharge of the 9 largest rivers into the baltic (rough math, wikipedia sources), and the Frazer has half that again plus other smaller rivers from the area. The surface area is much smaller and the outlet is narrower but I think its also deeper, the baltic has and average depth of 55M and that area is open ocean so I imagine it's way deeper than that. The straight from northern vancouver island to mainland be gets below 3km at its narrowest denmark is three straights between islands at something like 1.5km, 4.5km and 16km, again depth unknown for either.
In conclusion I would expect the new sea (needs a name?) (Columbia sea?) to eventually develop to become even fresher than the baltic but that might take centuries depending on volume.
There's also the Thames and the Humber flowing into this Columbia Sea.
So, yeah, I agree with your assessment- it's likely to become more freshwater.
Maybe in the shorter term, you'd end up with a layer of freshwater above more salty water relegated to the depths?
No no. Whatever the source reason for a British Isles relocation, you can't plop Britain and Ireland in the Pacific. Aside from the freshwater issues mentioned above, it'll mess with the Oregon Coastline and the amazing surf there.
Where it would need to go is just south of Newfoundland. With Scotland's Outer Hebrides just sort of continuing into St Pierre and Miquelon.
This gives the added bonus of Dublin being extra close to Boston, and making the NFL's dream of a London expansion franchise super easy. And that team would definitely best fit in a division with either the Patriots or the NY Giants.
.
Hapsburg
Banned
A map (borders still thick, will thin out later) and some facts of the Kingdom of Lithuar. After the elven, gnomish, human, and dwarven peoples rose up and engaged in a twenty-year war for their independence from Orcish hegemony, a New Empire was formed from an alliance of the victorious states. Lithuar, a dwarven-ruled kingdom that formed after the fall of the Old Empire, emerged after the war as one of the most powerful, rich, and populous kingdoms in the New Empire.
The map shows the internal divisions of the country, the major duchies and earldoms . The color-coded key next to the map depicts also the broad factions these fiefs fall under: cool colors are the old guard Separatist faction that resists royal power and supports decentralization or separation, while the warm colors are associated with the Royalist faction that supports the authority of the king and a strong, centralized kingdom.
The map shows the internal divisions of the country, the major duchies and earldoms . The color-coded key next to the map depicts also the broad factions these fiefs fall under: cool colors are the old guard Separatist faction that resists royal power and supports decentralization or separation, while the warm colors are associated with the Royalist faction that supports the authority of the king and a strong, centralized kingdom.
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This is technically a textbook-esque GIF compilation (with a slight twist) of the Upheaval maps for the RDNA-verse from back in 2015, themselves a revamp of an earlier work done back in 2011. It's also an experiment in trying to do full map-sized GIFs for any future works.
That it also provides a chance to reacquaint people to the RDNA-verse helps as well. And thankfully, only minimal editing was required on the text itself, having managed to hold up after all this time.
And just to be safe, this is a work of fiction. The original copy (with the running GIF) can also be found here.
At any rate, hope you enjoy!
The Upheaval: An Introduction
In the Royal Dominion of New Austria, locals know the period covering the Terror and its immediate aftermath simply as the “Upheaval.” Historians in general put its beginnings either in 1925 or the formal “end” of the Terror itself around 1928, its end placed in 1933-34 with the last surrender of the Kuban Insurrection. It is unanimously agreed however that the events of those times were the realm’s darkest hour, when the realm seemed closest to collapsing altogether. But to understand that era’s enduring impact and the perseverance of New Austrians, one has to know the history.
While the exact origins and chronological timeline of the Terror still remain muddled to this day due to the chaos of those times, what is unmistakable is the rationale behind the so-called Collectivists. Following a skewered and particularly zealous mix of older ideologies – the surviving remnants of which include Societism – these adherents offered salvation to labor and sought to free mankind through Revolution, as their so-called “Will of the Workers” dictate. What began as waves of turmoil across Europe in 1920-22 soon tore apart nations and empires that had lasted centuries. Even as the collapsing realms tried to respond, the foundations of what is now the Collectivist Internationale were already being laid over the ashes. But though the New World largely escaped the initial Collectivist waves that emerged around 1920-22, it would prove to be a temporary respite even for the most isolated countries compared to what happened after.
At first, despite the dark clouds over the horizon, the New Austrians sought to send a military expedition to their besieged relatives in Mitteleuropa, which by 1925 had shifted to a desperate defense as more of the Austro-Hungarian Crownlands crumbled before the Collectivists. Nothing symbolized this more than the Fall of Vienna and Budapest. Whatever ships and aircraft could be spared, let alone deemed usable were brought into service in order to evacuate as many as possible over the next few years, commoners and nobles alike. Eventually, what remained of the Imperial Army either deserted or were brought under direct command of the New Austrian armed forces. But not even the most stubborn resistance could hold back the advancing militias of the nascent Internationale. Surviving accounts and records from the Crownlands’ final days still speak volumes of the tragic desperation amidst it all. Among those boarding the last ships in 1927 were Emperor (later Archduke) Franz Ferdinand I (1863-1936) and his family, whose testimonies on the bloodied end of the Danube and those who opted to stay behind continue to haunt New Austrians.
Domestically meanwhile, conditions worsened as the decade dragged on. Few at the time expected how extensive and tumultuous the Terror’s impact was despite attempts to mitigate the damage. With the collapse of international trade and the intricate socio-economic system set up by the Crownlands, as well as growing fears of Collectivist infiltration, New Austria was forced to resort to both rationing and strict measures to keep order. Even as social tensions simmered to unprecedented heights, the continuing flow of incoming refugees from across the Atlantic and a need to maintain whatever commitments still mattered – such as the decision to aid the Canadians in their “Dominion War” against Collectivist and Reactionary groups – pushed the realm to near-breaking point. By 1926, “exceptional” civil unrest began plaguing the R.D.N.A, becoming more widespread by the following year. Whether in the countryside or in major cities like Engelnstadt, riots and banditry were no longer unheard of. The Polizei, reserves and the handful of regiments left behind found themselves under tremendous strain just ensuring that the “exceptional” civil unrest didn’t escalate into full-anarchic lawlessness. While in Havana, dissidents and rebellious elements took advantage of the disorder to stage what is now called the Kuban Insurrection in 1928, promising freedom even while persecuting the loyalist populace. To live in such times must have been akin to seeing hell.
It was no surprise that the press, or what still remained active amidst the chaos, dreaded that in spite of martial law across New Austria, the country was about to suffer the same fate as its counterparts across the Atlantic. But that horrid fate was not to be. When the Polizei were incapable, overstretched or non-existent, locals and refugees alike strove to take back their home from the bandits and feuding cliques. A sense of solidarity among the realm’s peoples, their continuing loyalty to their suffering monarch and the persistence of institutions like the Catholic Church meant that even during the worst movements, the social fabric still held firm. And as the last of the New Austrian expedition returned with what remained of the Crownlands, order and some degree of normalcy soon restored, one Crown Province at a time. Before long, the same valiant souls who saw nations die and faced down their foes with their Canadian comrades-in-arms came to the rescue of the loyalist Kubans . The fierce campaign that ensued ended the Insurrection in 1933, led to the Carriedo Compromise the following year and helped put a dark chapter to a close once and for all.
All while the government, under the more direct intervention of Franz Ferdinand I continued to function despite the dangers. It was during this difficult time that the 1927 Papal Concordat was signed with what remained of the Holy See, the now Vatican-in-Exile’s sanctuary being the religious community of Mariazell-am-Meer. The Archduke himself, soon after a discreet coronation ceremony and still traumatized from his ancestral domain’s downfall, addressed the Reichstag in 1928. The Succession Address, as it came to be known, was broadcasted to every corner of the R.D.N.A., at once reaffirming the now Throne-in-Exile’s common struggle and personally assuring the public that they would prevail. More importantly, it was this speech, unprecedented for the period that both proclaimed New Austria as the legitimate successor to the Crownlands and led to the ratification of the present Constitution.
Nonetheless, the legacy of both the Terror and Upheaval continue to echo into our own times, alongside the ever-present threat from Collectivism. It is evident in the population with a sizable portion of which is directly descended from those refugees who fled the Crownlands and beyond, the Swiss being among the most independent-minded of the Non-New Austrian groups. It is seen in media and culture, be it in a deep sense of solidarity, a fascination with the dead or the haunting reminders preserved for posterity.
More visible still is Revivalism. Like in other parts of the Free World, the Governments-in-Exile established by the handful of nobles, politicians and diplomats who escaped their countries’ collapse gradually disbanded over the decades that followed, dispersing among the refugee-descended groups, yet it was not a sign of resignation or defeat. For in their place rose the various Revivalist organizations, seeking in one way or another to not just keep the memories of their “Lost Nations” alive but also one day reclaim those fallen lands from the Collectivist Internationale. Such is their support - more so than compared to their counterparts in the American Federation – that these movements have both influence in the Reichstag as well as the favor of the Throne-in-Exile; none more so than the Austro-Hungarian League. In fact, among New Austrians, it can be summed up by a simple phrase that is as meaningful as the old Imperial motto of Viribus Unitis.
“Never again.”
P.S. “Never again,” yes. It shouldn’t have happened…Mama…Papa… - Fraulein F.
- From “The Knowledgeable Traveller’s Guide to North America.” Royal Dominion of New Austria. 2022 Edition. English Edition.
New Austria and the Upheaval: RDNA-verse
New Austria and the Upheaval-Francesca's Copy:RDNA
EDIT: Fixing images
That it also provides a chance to reacquaint people to the RDNA-verse helps as well. And thankfully, only minimal editing was required on the text itself, having managed to hold up after all this time.
And just to be safe, this is a work of fiction. The original copy (with the running GIF) can also be found here.
At any rate, hope you enjoy!
----
The Upheaval: An Introduction
In the Royal Dominion of New Austria, locals know the period covering the Terror and its immediate aftermath simply as the “Upheaval.” Historians in general put its beginnings either in 1925 or the formal “end” of the Terror itself around 1928, its end placed in 1933-34 with the last surrender of the Kuban Insurrection. It is unanimously agreed however that the events of those times were the realm’s darkest hour, when the realm seemed closest to collapsing altogether. But to understand that era’s enduring impact and the perseverance of New Austrians, one has to know the history.
While the exact origins and chronological timeline of the Terror still remain muddled to this day due to the chaos of those times, what is unmistakable is the rationale behind the so-called Collectivists. Following a skewered and particularly zealous mix of older ideologies – the surviving remnants of which include Societism – these adherents offered salvation to labor and sought to free mankind through Revolution, as their so-called “Will of the Workers” dictate. What began as waves of turmoil across Europe in 1920-22 soon tore apart nations and empires that had lasted centuries. Even as the collapsing realms tried to respond, the foundations of what is now the Collectivist Internationale were already being laid over the ashes. But though the New World largely escaped the initial Collectivist waves that emerged around 1920-22, it would prove to be a temporary respite even for the most isolated countries compared to what happened after.
At first, despite the dark clouds over the horizon, the New Austrians sought to send a military expedition to their besieged relatives in Mitteleuropa, which by 1925 had shifted to a desperate defense as more of the Austro-Hungarian Crownlands crumbled before the Collectivists. Nothing symbolized this more than the Fall of Vienna and Budapest. Whatever ships and aircraft could be spared, let alone deemed usable were brought into service in order to evacuate as many as possible over the next few years, commoners and nobles alike. Eventually, what remained of the Imperial Army either deserted or were brought under direct command of the New Austrian armed forces. But not even the most stubborn resistance could hold back the advancing militias of the nascent Internationale. Surviving accounts and records from the Crownlands’ final days still speak volumes of the tragic desperation amidst it all. Among those boarding the last ships in 1927 were Emperor (later Archduke) Franz Ferdinand I (1863-1936) and his family, whose testimonies on the bloodied end of the Danube and those who opted to stay behind continue to haunt New Austrians.
Domestically meanwhile, conditions worsened as the decade dragged on. Few at the time expected how extensive and tumultuous the Terror’s impact was despite attempts to mitigate the damage. With the collapse of international trade and the intricate socio-economic system set up by the Crownlands, as well as growing fears of Collectivist infiltration, New Austria was forced to resort to both rationing and strict measures to keep order. Even as social tensions simmered to unprecedented heights, the continuing flow of incoming refugees from across the Atlantic and a need to maintain whatever commitments still mattered – such as the decision to aid the Canadians in their “Dominion War” against Collectivist and Reactionary groups – pushed the realm to near-breaking point. By 1926, “exceptional” civil unrest began plaguing the R.D.N.A, becoming more widespread by the following year. Whether in the countryside or in major cities like Engelnstadt, riots and banditry were no longer unheard of. The Polizei, reserves and the handful of regiments left behind found themselves under tremendous strain just ensuring that the “exceptional” civil unrest didn’t escalate into full-anarchic lawlessness. While in Havana, dissidents and rebellious elements took advantage of the disorder to stage what is now called the Kuban Insurrection in 1928, promising freedom even while persecuting the loyalist populace. To live in such times must have been akin to seeing hell.
It was no surprise that the press, or what still remained active amidst the chaos, dreaded that in spite of martial law across New Austria, the country was about to suffer the same fate as its counterparts across the Atlantic. But that horrid fate was not to be. When the Polizei were incapable, overstretched or non-existent, locals and refugees alike strove to take back their home from the bandits and feuding cliques. A sense of solidarity among the realm’s peoples, their continuing loyalty to their suffering monarch and the persistence of institutions like the Catholic Church meant that even during the worst movements, the social fabric still held firm. And as the last of the New Austrian expedition returned with what remained of the Crownlands, order and some degree of normalcy soon restored, one Crown Province at a time. Before long, the same valiant souls who saw nations die and faced down their foes with their Canadian comrades-in-arms came to the rescue of the loyalist Kubans . The fierce campaign that ensued ended the Insurrection in 1933, led to the Carriedo Compromise the following year and helped put a dark chapter to a close once and for all.
All while the government, under the more direct intervention of Franz Ferdinand I continued to function despite the dangers. It was during this difficult time that the 1927 Papal Concordat was signed with what remained of the Holy See, the now Vatican-in-Exile’s sanctuary being the religious community of Mariazell-am-Meer. The Archduke himself, soon after a discreet coronation ceremony and still traumatized from his ancestral domain’s downfall, addressed the Reichstag in 1928. The Succession Address, as it came to be known, was broadcasted to every corner of the R.D.N.A., at once reaffirming the now Throne-in-Exile’s common struggle and personally assuring the public that they would prevail. More importantly, it was this speech, unprecedented for the period that both proclaimed New Austria as the legitimate successor to the Crownlands and led to the ratification of the present Constitution.
Nonetheless, the legacy of both the Terror and Upheaval continue to echo into our own times, alongside the ever-present threat from Collectivism. It is evident in the population with a sizable portion of which is directly descended from those refugees who fled the Crownlands and beyond, the Swiss being among the most independent-minded of the Non-New Austrian groups. It is seen in media and culture, be it in a deep sense of solidarity, a fascination with the dead or the haunting reminders preserved for posterity.
More visible still is Revivalism. Like in other parts of the Free World, the Governments-in-Exile established by the handful of nobles, politicians and diplomats who escaped their countries’ collapse gradually disbanded over the decades that followed, dispersing among the refugee-descended groups, yet it was not a sign of resignation or defeat. For in their place rose the various Revivalist organizations, seeking in one way or another to not just keep the memories of their “Lost Nations” alive but also one day reclaim those fallen lands from the Collectivist Internationale. Such is their support - more so than compared to their counterparts in the American Federation – that these movements have both influence in the Reichstag as well as the favor of the Throne-in-Exile; none more so than the Austro-Hungarian League. In fact, among New Austrians, it can be summed up by a simple phrase that is as meaningful as the old Imperial motto of Viribus Unitis.
“Never again.”
- From “The Knowledgeable Traveller’s Guide to North America.” Royal Dominion of New Austria. 2022 Edition. English Edition.
----
The original maps can be found here:
New Austria and the Upheaval: RDNA-verse
New Austria and the Upheaval-Francesca's Copy:RDNA
EDIT: Fixing images
Last edited:
I don't think such a thread would be impossible in Chat. Just talk to a mod (also about stickying it), and open it.
Also, I really like the idea, @fluttersky . If you are not (yet?) ready for a full timeline, I would at least go for a map series or something!
Eh, from previous thread the mods are generally very lenient about cotemporary maps as long as they don’t get too political, or they aren’t literally alternate election map of the previous couple elections/next one.
Considering that most alternate election are in an infobox medium, there isn’t much need for it I think, if more people did high quality (as in aesthetically, and/or not in an infobox) current politics election maps then yes such a thread would have a use
That and the major ports on the North Sea get screwed in the short term. The ships from Asia must make quite a detour. I think that cities like Rotterdam, Antwerp and Hamburg will push for a channel canal for the smaller regional transport.
Hm. You raise a good point.
The reason I didn't do that is that the climate on the west coast of North America is more UK-like. The east coast's climate is more continental.
But, it's a possibility.
If I were to do that, I might just shove it in like this. The UK would then be warmer in this location though.
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