Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
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Great to see a united Democratic ticket with Udall and Bentsen. With liberals, moderates, and conservatives working together for the Democratic cause, it'll be a tough opponent for the GOP to face, especially with a nation in the midst of an economic recession. Also great to see Harvey Milk survive this assassination attempt, although there's still a chance that he might still suffer the same fate in '78.
One other thing I'd like to mention:
By any chance, was this added due to RL influences? Specifically, the Democratic debates?
One other thing I'd like to mention:
By any chance, was this added due to RL influences? Specifically, the Democratic debates?
Udall and Bentsen seem like a great ticket there @President_Lincoln. Should be an interesting election esp if Udall keeps it ‘clean’ which is a nice change from modern times.
Hoping Milk goes onto great things and the nutjob that shot at him and Udall gets jailtime and help.
Hoping Milk goes onto great things and the nutjob that shot at him and Udall gets jailtime and help.
The most I fear from this ticket is that if Udall win the election, the post 1976 is just wow! Inflation, The Iranian Revolution and Many More Wild Rides! And I fear that if they win and all of this wow things happen then either progressives would be pounded to the next century or discredit Democrats like what Reagan did in the 80s
I still want Bush to win. Let the 80s be the decade of the Progressives I say.
I kind of regret catching up now---because at least then the next installment was right there---now I've gotta be like everyone else and wait patiently for @President_Lincoln to upload the next chapter! Brilliant as usual. You've seriously got me hooked.
I actually recall an ATL People discussion of OBL becoming a member of Mythbusters (irony of ironies). With TTLs OBL on his love for association football (soccer), I wonder if he would actually become a sort of analogue to Pakistan's Imran Khan: a beloved athlete turned politician. The possibilities there....
The butterflies of more than a decade have, in fact, allowed Delgado to survive his OTL fatal crash.The original Master is still going strong as of 1976.
This, IMHO, I am seeing as a bit more unlikely. Delgado, in all his talents, was looking to depart along with Pertwee IOTL since they started together. Even with Guinness, I do not see that changing. While I do see Delgado coming to the role in 1976, it would most likely be for a regeneration event (something along the lines of The Keeper of Traken in taking a new body, if not robbing time energy for regenerations). Whoever the new actor/actress may be is up for anybody's guess.
While I am on the subject (also hope you didn't lose my message @President_Lincoln), I was curious about a more considered effort for a bit of American talent crossing over for Who. I do have a crazy idea, if you would like to hear it.
Any information regarding companies like RCA, united artists, and perhaps the details of the soda industry, @President_Lincoln?
That's quite alright, @theg*ddam*hoi2fan!
I'm just glad to hear that you're still enjoying the TL! Thank you for the clarification! Similarly to OTL, the U.S. Government denies that they own or operate any location known as "Area 51" - though they do admit that the Department of Defense and Air Force do perform highly classified tests and operations "in the area surrounding Groom Dry Lake". Essentially, they dislike the nomenclature, and don't want to give away classified military secrets, as per OTL.
Thank you, @TheImperialTheorist!
I won't say too much about what's happening IRL at the moment outside of chat of course, but I can't deny that, as Mark Twain put it, "History doesn't repeat itself but it does rhyme." There may occasionally be RL influences on Blue Skies, though I will try to keep any such influences within the realm of realism still.Thanks, @Ogrebear! I hope so too.
This is true, @President Roosevelt. I also recognize the fear from you all that '76 could be a "poisoned chalice" for either President Bush or Udall/Bentsen should they win as it was for President Carter IOTL. If I may, I would, however, like to offer a counterargument for how a second term for George H.W. Bush here (or a Udall first term) could be radically different from Carter's Administration IOTL...
We are nearly 15 years out from Blue Skies' PoD at this point, and the butterfly wings have definitely begun to flap heavily in the U.S. and all over the world. While an Iranian Revolution of some kind is still most likely to occur and overthrow the Shah, with Khomeini having been assassinated before his rise to power ITTL, the Revolution, if/when it does come, will have different leadership and because of this possibly different goals. This isn't to say that no Khomeini = a pro-U.S. Iran. Far from it. I'm merely suggesting that the Revolution could turn out differently, and with a different President than Carter at the helm of U.S. Foreign Policy when it does happen, perhaps the U.S. will be in a better position to avoid a Hostage Crisis or anything of the sort from occurring in the first place. Inflation is already on the steep decline thanks to President Bush and Secretary Freidman's deflationary policies. While the full effect of these reductions will likely not be felt until a few years down the road, an earlier end to inflation could mean a more economically sound late 70's. While a second oil crisis would certainly still be a possibility (and would bring with it massive economic challenges of its own), again, a different President/Congress may react to these situations (should they occur) differently and be able to avoid the worst of the woes often associated with this period.
If you all would indulge me to wax philosophical for a moment (and these thoughts are purely my own opinion and may be controversial)... I personally find the notion of "poisoned chalice" elections to be fairly untrustworthy on the whole. While it is true that certain periods of history present more challenges than others, and the late 70's certainly has its share of institutional problems which will need to be addressed, I refuse to believe that regardless of the PoD or how far out from it a TL may go, there are certain fundamental "truths" that cannot be altered, no matter what. Different circumstances, different actors, and different actions can lead to results which differ from OTL. That is, in a nutshell, the essence of Alternate History. Where is the fun or thought provocation in believing that no matter who was calling the shots from 1977 - 1981, they were doomed to be loathed and dismissed because the period was just "too difficult" for anyone to handle. IOTL, President Carter is not remembered as a sub-par President because the challenges he faced were immense, but rather because his style of leadership failed to meet those challenges. Carter had a strained, confrontational relationship with Congress, even members of his own party, which resulted in very little getting done to address the nation's problems. These are issues which I believe both Bush and/or Udall would not face as seriously. Carter was also, for all his sterling qualities as a human being (kindness, faith, etc.), seen by the public as overly serious, introspective, pessimistic, indecisive, and weak. This image tanked his approval ratings and lead to the "Reagan Revolution" in 1980. ITTL, Bush may be seen by some as a "wimp", but he's done a lot to shed that moniker. While the President may have a hard time with "the vision thing", he does benefit from immense foreign policy acumen and a general image with the voters of being honest and trying to do the right thing. Representative Udall, meanwhile, projects a sunny, energetic, upbeat, and optimistic vision for the future, all while seeming to have the know-how to back it up. While the Presidency in tough times could weigh on both of them, I happen to think either may be capable of rising to the challenges better than Carter did IOTL.
In conclusion, I believe history is more pliable than we happen to think it is on the surface. The next four years of Blue Skies will be difficult, no doubt. But from the very beginning, this has been a "What if..." about a more hopeful world. There will be dark times, but in the end, expect a rosier vision overall than what we have IOTL. (Yes, even eventually for the UK).
Thank you so much, @DarkDestroyer!
I'm so thrilled that you're enjoying yourself. I'm hoping to have the next post up soon. An excellent point, @Gerbbro! Udall's rivals would have brought up his support of "right-to-work" legislation (particularly his 1965 vote on the matter), and it likely would have cost him support to Senator Glenn and Governor Bentsen. In the end, Udall's honesty about the discrepancy between his personal beliefs and past voting record would keep the issue from destroying his campaign, but it will be an issue for him moving forward if he doesn't make a concerted effort to strengthen his position there.
Read about a different leader for Iran, should the Islamic Revolution occur. Hussein Ali Montazerri, I believe his name is. Raed up on him when you can.
The Beatles Core Catalogue - Recton?
Greetings all!
I apologize that this is not a full update in any way, but as a major Beatles fan myself, I thought it necessary to finally codify/retcon the Fab Four's "Core Catalogue" ITTL. I will try to go back and edit/make changes to their updates wherever necessary, and I also hope to feature them again in a full length update soon.
Cheers!
I apologize that this is not a full update in any way, but as a major Beatles fan myself, I thought it necessary to finally codify/retcon the Fab Four's "Core Catalogue" ITTL. I will try to go back and edit/make changes to their updates wherever necessary, and I also hope to feature them again in a full length update soon.
Cheers!
- Please Please Me - 1963
- With the Beatles - 1963
- A Hard Day's Night - 1964
- Beatles for Sale - 1964
- Help! - 1965
- Rubber Soul - 1965
- Tomorrow Never Knows - 1966
- Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - 1967
- Hello, Goodbye - 1967
- The White Album - 1968
- Yellow Submarine - 1968
- Get Back - 1969
- Abbey Road - 1969
- All Things Must Pass - 1971
- Power to the People - 1973
- Photograph - 1975
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The song "Yellow Submarine" appeared originally on 1966's Tomorrow Never Knows ITTL, and was still a #1 single for the band.
The Yellow Submarine film also is still made here, I apologize for not including its soundtrack in the band's "Core Catalogue", I can update the post.Thanks for your thoughts on Alternative History @President_Lincoln
Question- do you consider natural events such as hurricanes, volcanos etc as fixed points in time, just the responses might differ, by who’s in charge?
Question- do you consider natural events such as hurricanes, volcanos etc as fixed points in time, just the responses might differ, by who’s in charge?
An excellent question!
I do think that natural disasters (as long as they are truly forces of nature) are fixed/bound to happen unless there is any human action that can be taken to prevent them. For example, if I ever get around to writing my TL starting in 1865 and reach the Great San Francisco Earthquake in 1906, that Earthquake will still occur. The response to it may be different, as you mention, but the event itself cannot really be avoided. So much of history is brought about by human actions/reactions that I think there is plenty of room to play around in Alternate History while still following the geological timeline of OTL's Earth. (Unless geological PoDs are what you're going for, of course.)
Hey Mr President I found your insight on the "poison chalice" and the 70's and President Carter to be fascinating. I agree that Jimmy Carter had problems during his four years but that he also achieved some good wins for example the Camp David Accords, continuing détente with the Soviet Union, a focus on human rights and the environment and attempting to learn mistakes from Vietnam. But Carter was also influenced by his NS Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski in foreign policy and look what happened as a result. But Jimmy Carter has done a lot of good post his Presidentency too.
An excellent question!
Yeah, the only way I view as acceptable to change them is after a massive nuclear exchange. That's gonna offset some weather at least a bit