Britain receives two A6Ms in Oct 1940

[McPherson]

1. OK, Nagumo dithered for hours during Midway when he should have kept his reserve A/C armed to attack the USN as ordered. So there are two ID10Ts engaged at Midway. But what does that have to do with the ranges and speeds of the A/C?
2. Lucky happenstance for the crews of the SBDs - at the cost of the crews of the TBDs who were flying obsolete planes who should have been beached.
3. IJN deemed it unsafe to tow the hulks home, not that they had no way to tow them back to Japan.

1. Everything about Browning matters. Fuchida and crew could add, subtract and divide so their ATOs for strike and search were accurate even if Nagumo dithered. Miles Browning, his staff, and that bunch over at Hornet couldn't operate calipers, much less estimate fuel time in the air, figure out search vectors or even schedule strike coordination among two aircraft carriers within blinker light distance of each other.
2. Based on 1. don't you think McClusky, English, and Waldron deserve the credit for their in-air command decisions that obviated Browning's fuck ups? You think McClusky took over Enterprise air-ops after Spruance benched Browning because Spruance liked him? (He would get to like McClusky, but results oriented Spruance was not a "people person" like Halsey was.)
3. Naw, the two dinged up battleships were running for their lives and none of the other ships in the screen had the kWatts to tow 25-35,000 tonne burned out dead hulks 4,000 kilometers through the sub infested waters back to Kure and Yaokusuka. So that is the skivvy of it.

 

[Simon]

Can we cut out this "lend lease is free" shit? The US didn't give the UK anything for free, it was all to be paid for and the UK taxpayer was still being bled white well into the 1990s paying for lease lend stuff.

IIRC the goods were free if they were returned after the war, and the US only charged 10% of the value on any that had been lost or that Britain wished to keep. Hardly the most egregious deal ever offered. As for the loan repayment which continued until the mid-2000s I was under the impression that they were taken out post-war, and that part of the reason for their running so long was that the interest rates were so low compared to market rates it was more advantageous to keep them running – much like student loans often being.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

There is an assumption here that Britain passes on what it learns from the captured Zeros to the US, or even hands one of them over. While this very likely they don't have to.

 

[marathag]

There is an assumption here that Britain passes on what it learns from the captured Zeros to the US, or even hands one of them over. While this very likely they don't have to.

I agree. They would see it as a lighter weight Hawk 75 with carrier arresting gear. Why tell the US about what they nearly already had?

OTOH, real metal captured would lend credence to what Chenault was talking about in China, before the AVG was formed-- that the Japanese had moved beyond the Ki-10 and A5M, to long range, all metal monoplanes with retractable gear

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Why tell the US about what they nearly already had?

I suppose a lot would depend on whether the US knows Britain has close enough relations with China that the Chinese would hand over captured equipment. If they do then why not share the information, but if it's a secret then the US could be out of luck.

 

[McPherson]

I suppose a lot would depend on whether the US knows Britain has close enough relations with China that the Chinese would hand over captured equipment. If they do then why not share the information, but if it's a secret then the US could be out of luck.

The US knew a lot because Chaing's government was riddled with informers and his wife could not keep her mouth shut, but there was a lot the British Indian and East Asian commands kept hidden, so I suspect they would not share an A6M. Some secrets like the loss of the RAF radar sites and sets, should have been shared because that will come back to HURT at Santa Cruz, but then old Mac let US army top secret equipment^1 fall into Japanese hands, too, so there is enough bad faith on both sides.

^1 Radars and a code breaking machine.

 

[Ramontxo]

I know this is diverting the original premise. But, while I understand how many modern Britishers are angry with the Tizard Mission I just would like to point the (not that Small) difference between the Anglo American WWII cooperation and (for example) the German/Italian or the Japanese/ whoever else axis one. If you are betting your empire and anything else against ultimate evil IMHO the British Government took the right decision.

 

[yulzari]

I know this is diverting the original premise. But, while I understand how many modern Britishers are angry with the Tizard Mission I just would like to point the (not that Small) difference between the Anglo American WWII cooperation and (for example) the German/Italian or the Japanese/ whoever else axis one. If you are betting your empire and anything else against ultimate evil IMHO the British Government took the right decision.

To divert your diversion. The term 'Britishers' died out about two generations ago and 'Britons' or 'British' are the normal usage.