marathag
Banned
Unlike the Nazis, the Soviet had the theory correct, with being able to doublecheck with results from the US Atomic spies.
Would the USA enter a Cold War with a victorious Nazi Germany after WW2?
- Thread starter Jabe Shepherd
- Start date
Ricardolindo
Banned
Not this again, please, I've already pointed out that a 1939 poll shows that, in a hypothetical war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, the overwhelming majority of Americans would prefer to see the Soviet Union win and that a 1941 poll showed that the overwhelming majority of Americans believed that it would be bad for the USA if Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy won the war.
Thus, a Cold War between the USA and Nazi Germany would start right after an Axis victory.
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I don't get it, considering the reputation of the USSR at the time before Pearl Harbor and Barbarossa, unless it has something to do with Nazi Germany having started a war no one but the Nazis wanted.
Ricardolindo
Banned
No offense but did you read what I wrote? A 1939 poll showed that, in a hypothetical war between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, the overwhelming majority of Americans would prefer to see the Soviet Union win.
I did, but what baffles me is why considering that the polls were made before the Nazi invasion of the USSR and that communism was hated at the time.
Reading back trough the thread, I'm not seeing much about the change of the Nuetrality Acts in 1939 to allow purchase of earmaterials in the US, or the establishment of the Atlantic Exclusion or Nuetrality Zone. Both of those heavily favored France and Britain. Cash strapped & blockaded Germany had very marginal access to US industry 1939-41. Large scale weapons sales, technical assistance, & US Navy operations were full on 'Cold War' against Germany & Italy.
Ricardolindo
Banned
By 1939, the consensus was that Fascism and Nazism were more immediate threats than Communism.
It probably helps that Communism Ultimately has the same roots as liberalism, or whatever you call what the US was doing at the time, but fascism was something that was utterly opposed to most of the enlightenment and didn't even pay much lipservice to those ideas in any way.
Still there were a fair number of people in the US attracted to the ideas of Facism. Terrified millionaires and fearful middle class seem to have been especially vulnerable, tho one can kick of working stiffs and the poor out of the litter.
My take is less money was made as the decades passed. ie: Koch senior wound down his petroleum development contracts from 1928 as another round of purges set in.
To reply directly, see a Gallup Poll in 1941... Sorce: http://ibiblio.org/pha/Gallup/Gallup 1941.htm
EUROPEAN WAR
Interviewing Date 6/26-7/1/41
Survey #240-K Question #6a
In the present war between Germany and Russia, which side would you like to see win?
Germany........................... 4%
Russia............................. 72
No difference....................... 17
No opinion......................... 7
By Income Upper
Germany........................... 5%
Russia............................. 72
No difference, no opinion............. 23
Middle
Germany........................... 4%
Russia............................. 73
No difference, no opinion............. 23
288 THE GALLUP POLL
Lower
Germany........................... 3%
Russia............................. 72
No difference, no opinion............. 25
By Religion
Catholics
Germany........................... 6%
Russia.............................65
No difference, no opinion.............29
Protestants
Germany........................... 3%
Russia.............................74
No difference, no opinion............. 23
Interviewing Date 6/26-7/1/41
Survey #240-K Question #6b
Which side do you think will win the war?
Germany...........................47%
Russia.............................22
Stalemate........................... 8
No opinion.........................23
Interviewing Date 6/26-7/1/41
Survey #240-K Question #6a
In the present war between Germany and Russia, which side would you like to see win?
Germany........................... 4%
Russia............................. 72
No difference....................... 17
No opinion......................... 7
By Income Upper
Germany........................... 5%
Russia............................. 72
No difference, no opinion............. 23
Middle
Germany........................... 4%
Russia............................. 73
No difference, no opinion............. 23
288 THE GALLUP POLL
Lower
Germany........................... 3%
Russia............................. 72
No difference, no opinion............. 25
By Religion
Catholics
Germany........................... 6%
Russia.............................65
No difference, no opinion.............29
Protestants
Germany........................... 3%
Russia.............................74
No difference, no opinion............. 23
Interviewing Date 6/26-7/1/41
Survey #240-K Question #6b
Which side do you think will win the war?
Germany...........................47%
Russia.............................22
Stalemate........................... 8
No opinion.........................23
So yes, the Rich favored Germany in the sense that only 5% supported Germany vs the USSR, compared to the Lower Income only having 3% supporting the USSR.
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Some other interesting polls.
FEBRUARY 21 [1941]
SOUTH AMERICA
Special Survey
If Brazil, Argentina, Chile, or any other Central or South American country is actually attacked by any European power, do you think the United States should fight to keep that European power out?
Yes................................ 86%
No................................ 14
Eight per cent expressed no opinion.
Which of the following statements best describes Central and South America? (on card)
Central and South America have very few natural resources such as good farm land, oil, coal, silver, gold, water-power, etc., and will probably always be poor, weak, and backward........ 8%
Central and South America have many natural resources and some time may become fairly wealthy and strong..... 33
Central and South America have many natural resources and probably will become very wealthy and powerful.... 48
Don't know.........................11
Do you think Germany will try to get control of Central and South American countries?
Yes................................50%
Germany is already trying............ 38
No................................ 7
Don't know......................... 5
Do you think it is important for the United States to keep Germany from getting more influence or control over Central and South American countries than she now has?
Yes................................93%
No................................ 4
No opinion......................... 3
Do you think the United States should lend money to Central and South American countries to help them build up their industries, railroads, and defenses?
Yes................................58%
Qualified opinion.................... 12
No................................22
No opinion......................... 8
SOUTH AMERICA
Special Survey
If Brazil, Argentina, Chile, or any other Central or South American country is actually attacked by any European power, do you think the United States should fight to keep that European power out?
Yes................................ 86%
No................................ 14
Eight per cent expressed no opinion.
Which of the following statements best describes Central and South America? (on card)
Central and South America have very few natural resources such as good farm land, oil, coal, silver, gold, water-power, etc., and will probably always be poor, weak, and backward........ 8%
Central and South America have many natural resources and some time may become fairly wealthy and strong..... 33
Central and South America have many natural resources and probably will become very wealthy and powerful.... 48
Don't know.........................11
Do you think Germany will try to get control of Central and South American countries?
Yes................................50%
Germany is already trying............ 38
No................................ 7
Don't know......................... 5
Do you think it is important for the United States to keep Germany from getting more influence or control over Central and South American countries than she now has?
Yes................................93%
No................................ 4
No opinion......................... 3
Do you think the United States should lend money to Central and South American countries to help them build up their industries, railroads, and defenses?
Yes................................58%
Qualified opinion.................... 12
No................................22
No opinion......................... 8
Interviewing Date 5/22-27/41
Survey #237-K Question #2a
If you were asked to vote today on the question of the United States entering the war against Germany and Italy, how would you vote — to go into the war, or to stay out of the war?
Go in.............................. 20%
Stay out............................ 80
Families with Men Ages 16-24
Go in.............................. 22%
Stay out............................78
Interviewing Date 4/27-5/1/41
Survey #235-K Question #9b
If it appeared certain that there was no other way of defeating Germany and Italy, except for the United States to go to war against them, would you be in favor of the United States going into the war?
Yes................................ 66%
No................................ 34
Families with Men Ages 16-24
Yes................................ 68%
No................................ 32
Survey #237-K Question #2a
If you were asked to vote today on the question of the United States entering the war against Germany and Italy, how would you vote — to go into the war, or to stay out of the war?
Go in.............................. 20%
Stay out............................ 80
Families with Men Ages 16-24
Go in.............................. 22%
Stay out............................78
Interviewing Date 4/27-5/1/41
Survey #235-K Question #9b
If it appeared certain that there was no other way of defeating Germany and Italy, except for the United States to go to war against them, would you be in favor of the United States going into the war?
Yes................................ 66%
No................................ 34
Families with Men Ages 16-24
Yes................................ 68%
No................................ 32
EUROPEAN WAR
Interviewing Date 5/8-13/41
Survey #236-K Question #8
If Germany and Italy should defeat Britain in the present war, do you think Germany and Italy would start a war against the United States within the next 10 years?
Yes................................ 62%
No................................ 29
No opinion......................... 9
Interviewing Date 4/27-5/1/41
Survey #235-K Question #2
Do you think the United States will go into the war in Europe sometime before it is over, or do you think we will stay out of the war?
We are already in.................... 13%
We will go in....................... 64
We will stay out..................... 14
No opinion......................... 9
Families with Men Ages 16-24
We are already in.................... 12%
We will go in....................... 65
We will stay out..................... 14
No opinion......................... 9
Interviewing Date 5/22-27/41
Interviewing Date 5/8-13/41
Survey #236-K Question #8
If Germany and Italy should defeat Britain in the present war, do you think Germany and Italy would start a war against the United States within the next 10 years?
Yes................................ 62%
No................................ 29
No opinion......................... 9
Interviewing Date 4/27-5/1/41
Survey #235-K Question #2
Do you think the United States will go into the war in Europe sometime before it is over, or do you think we will stay out of the war?
We are already in.................... 13%
We will go in....................... 64
We will stay out..................... 14
No opinion......................... 9
Families with Men Ages 16-24
We are already in.................... 12%
We will go in....................... 65
We will stay out..................... 14
No opinion......................... 9
Interviewing Date 5/22-27/41
Last but not least:
Interviewing Date 5/8-13/41
Survey #236-K Question #6
Would you rather see Britain surrender to Germany than have the United States go into the war?
Yes................................ 26%
No................................ 62
No opinion......................... 12
The Gallup pools & other indicators make for fascinating reading, and bust a lot of myths about isolationism & US citizen attitudes. As for survey #236-K Question #6, that 26% who were willing to see Britain go down is attention grabbing. Taken in May of 1941 it makes me curious who the 'pacifists' were? Perhaps my Irish decended ancestors? As a child circa 1960 I recall more than one rant from a uncle and a aunt or two about how the 'Those English trouble makers got us in two unnecessary wars in our lifetime'. The Shaws & McGees on my mothers side had little to say about the English (spit on the ground at that word.)
thaddeus
Donor
what is the scenario of German victory but the US is on the sidelines? my initial thought was they've formed a durable partnership with USSR, but that got thumbs down (and frankly is not very plausible)
what is a plausible series of events that can be termed a victory?
maybe Germany solves their torpedo problems pre-war and does not fumble away their magnetic mine technology, those at least make the situation more dire for UK initially.
if Dunkirk were expected disaster instead of unexpected miracle? Germany might at the very least avoid losses from the BoB?
maybe a Phoney Peace can be forced on UK then?
what is a plausible series of events that can be termed a victory?
maybe Germany solves their torpedo problems pre-war and does not fumble away their magnetic mine technology, those at least make the situation more dire for UK initially.
if Dunkirk were expected disaster instead of unexpected miracle? Germany might at the very least avoid losses from the BoB?
maybe a Phoney Peace can be forced on UK then?
I don't think that's the case, considering that Communism in many ways is more illiberal than liberalism (if you're going by the definition of liberalism as governmental liberalism rather than ideologically liberalism) and that Fascism has some similar themes to conservative/right wing elements, not that I dig fascism mind you.
Still, I stand firm with the belief that people will hype up communism as either a lesser evil or a "victim" of Nazism in a Nazi victory scenario (henceforth my disagreement on Calbear's take where communist support fading out after a Soviet defeat).
True, but fascism and Nazism were our worst instincts on steroids. We had Jim Crow laws and antisemitism was mainstream. FDR was building up federal power (which isn't inherently bad but centralized power is a feature of fascism).
So I'm surprised that public opinion would see them as the greater threat.