A Britain of Panthers and Lions: House of Oldenburg Britain

[Wolfman217]

Alrighty, I'll try and sort something out soon

Re demgraphics, it kinda comes and goes in terms of what's needed for the chapter. I can tell you that Britannia's colonies have gotten a decent population growth following the defeat of Lord Fraser and his enemy, due to some clans immigrating there. Indeed a future politician for the 13 colonies will be seeing light soon.

Britannia and France currently compete for the largest navy in Europe with the Dutch and Spanish being a distinct second and third. France has the biggest maintained army, though Austria is slowly gaining on them.

In Asia, Iraq is hotly contested right now between the Ottomans and the Safavids, or at least it was, the Safavids are currently imploding.

In India, the Mughals control everything from the Punjab and Kashmir down to Delhi, their proper writ official ends at Delhi's limits though does include Bengal.

The Marathas control everything from Gujarat in the north west, to Rajputana in the centre, and down southwards up until Goa and exlcuding the seven Islands now known otl as Mumbai.

Thank you, it especially helps with remembering what want on....I read so many different timeline/stories I sometimes get confused whether something happened in one or another, seeing a map and therefor territory changes is good for jogging the memory i.e for instance seeing the changes in the balkans makes it clear a turkish war is going on which brings up the associated events.

Franklin immediately jumps to mind He'd be 16 in 22'. Or is that still too early? Also more Scottish influence in 13 colonies? That might cause some problems.

Britannia and France competing for largest Navy?!That's not right, Britannia rules the Waves!

This Anglo-French friendship is not sitting right with me If it continues we might not take rightful Britannian land in North America off them Actually what effect is the friendship having on the disputes between French and allied Natives and Britannia and allied Natives?

 

[VVD0D95]

Thank you, it especially helps with remembering what want on....I read so many different timeline/stories I sometimes get confused whether something happened in one or another, seeing a map and therefor territory changes is good for jogging the memory i.e for instance seeing the changes in the balkans makes it clear a turkish war is going on which brings up the associated events.

Franklin immediately jumps to mind He'd be 16 in 22'. Or is that still too early? Also more Scottish influence in 13 colonies? That might cause some problems.

Britannia and France competing for largest Navy?!That's not right, Britannia rules the Waves!

This Anglo-French friendship is not sitting right with me If it continues we might not take rightful Britannian land in North America off them Actually what effect is the friendship having on the disputes between French and allied Natives and Britannia and allied Natives?

If it helps, I can tell you Hungary, Serbia and Wallachia belong to Austria, whilst Moldavia is Russian allied. Whilst Bulgaria and Greece are still under Ottoman rule...for now.

Franklin is going to be making an appearance though not where you might think.

Scots influence in the 13 colonies causing trouble, how so?

And the friendship as much as it can be called that has seen a stalemate, though that is going to be broken soon

 

[Wolfman217]

If it helps, I can tell you Hungary, Serbia and Wallachia belong to Austria, whilst Moldavia is Russian allied. Whilst Bulgaria and Greece are still under Ottoman rule...for now.

Franklin is going to be making an appearance though not where you might think.

Scots influence in the 13 colonies causing trouble, how so?

And the friendship as much as it can be called that has seen a stalemate, though that is going to be broken soon

Running to England instead of Philadelphia when he's 17? That would be unexpected and make a hell of a difference.

It's more it's potentially rebellious scottish clans influence, lot of empty space in British North America and a lot of Scots and Irish who weren't happy with the English back on the Isles, I'm just thinking potential domestic trouble for the colonies, though I don;t know if that relationship has changed here.

I mean, unless you've changed it (which I can't remember if you have), the Britannian monarch is still claiming the throne of France, while it's not as serious thing in 1700's as it used to be the French really can't be buddy buddy with a nation that nominally claims their title.

Also just to say I'm enjoying it and looking forward to more.

 

[VVD0D95]

Running to England instead of Philadelphia when he's 17? That would be unexpected and make a hell of a difference.

It's more it's potentially rebellious scottish clans influence, lot of empty space in British North America and a lot of Scots and Irish who weren't happy with the English back on the Isles, I'm just thinking potential domestic trouble for the colonies, though I don;t know if that relationship has changed here.

I mean, unless you've changed it (which I can't remember if you have), the Britannian monarch is still claiming the throne of France, while it's not as serious thing in 1700's as it used to be the French really can't be buddy buddy with a nation that nominally claims their title.

Also just to say I'm enjoying it and looking forward to more.

Who knows franklin was pretty smart you know.

And very true aha

 

[Wolfman217]

Who knows franklin was pretty smart you know.

And very true aha

Yeah definitely, I have huge respect for Franklin despite the part he played in the colonies revolting - I just wish the British upper echelons listened to him about the colonies. A Franklin making his name in England instead of America and having more influence in London while still being a colonial at heart could make a large difference... having the power and influence to put words in important ears regarding colonial affairs....hmmm. Act of Union Ho! I kid, but I would love to see a 13 colonies integrated into Britannia. I've seen a couple where they become a Dominion before independence but outright integrated I've only seen the amazing 'Hail, Britannia' over in maps and graphics. But anyway getting ahead of myself, that's a while off yet.

 

[VVD0D95]

Yeah definitely, I have huge respect for Franklin despite the part he played in the colonies revolting - I just wish the British upper echelons listened to him about the colonies. A Franklin making his name in England instead of America and having more influence in London while still being a colonial at heart could make a large difference... having the power and influence to put words in important ears regarding colonial affairs....hmmm. Act of Union Ho! I kid, but I would love to see a 13 colonies integrated into Britannia. I've seen a couple where they become a Dominion before independence but outright integrated I've only seen the amazing 'Hail, Britannia' over in maps and graphics. But anyway getting ahead of myself, that's a while off yet.

 

[Valena]

Another map change from OTL - Russia still holds Azov&Taganrog on Black Sea, given that there was no disastrous 1711 war TTL. Borders in modern day Belarus & Ukraine between Russia and PLC saw some changes during the Northern War, but mostly returned to 1686 status quo as of now.

 

[VVD0D95]

Chapter 199: Shahu



October, 1722
​

Shahu stretched out and examined himself in the looking glass. There was a little bit of fat around his stomach but with the campaign to come that should disappear. He nodded approvingly to himself, and then turned to look at his son. Shiva was young, handsome and smart. And unlike their cousins, he had the sense to know when to speak and when not to. That was encouraging. His recent engagement to the Princess of Ajmer had also been a boon.

They walked out of the room, and into the audience chamber where his ministers were waiting. He had maintained the same ministers as his father had had with the exception of two deaths. Still, that was better than most. He sat down on the elaborate jewelled throne and gestured for the others to sit. “So,” he began. “Where do we stand?”

Jadhav spoke. “Sire, the soldiers are completely trained and are ready to march.”

Shahu smiled. “Good, and their fitness?” He did not want an army where the soldiers would suddenly drop like flies. He expected a long siege in Delhi.

“They are ready come high water or cold. They will not surrender.” Jadhav said with pride.

“Excellent.” Shahu replied. “Gaiconde, what are the state of our finances?”

Gaiconde was one of the men he had brought into the fold after his father’s death, mainly because his father’s finance minister had died alongside his father of the fever. The man was a hard worker and knew when to talk and when not to. “Sire, we are in the green. We have enough funds to ensure a campaing up to the next year and a half.”

“Good.” Shahu replied. “And the British and Portuguese, have they maintained their end of the bargain?”

“They have, Sire.” Gaiconde said. “Not a single shipment of food or arms has left the seven islands or Goa in two years.”

“Excellent.” Shahu said. He clapped his hands together. “Gentlemen, we have waited for years for this moment to come. Our late father ensured we had the tools to see it through. Now we shall progress into greatness. Delhi is there for the taking. We shall not fail.”

His son spoke then. “We have the support of the Rajputs and the Sikhs. Word has come from their Guru that they intend to hit Delhi from the north.”

“And they have agreed to our conditions?” Shahu asked. The Sikhs were fighters he would give them that much credit, but he was not sure if they would bend the knee should he stake his claim as Emperor of Bharat.

“They have. They shall give one of their daughters over to us for marriage.” Shiva said.

“Perfect.” Shahu rose then. “Gentlemen we all know what needs to be done. We shall be departing on the morrow for the march to Delhi. Gaiconde you shall remain in charge here until we summon you to Delhi. Everyone else, prepare yourselves for a good night’s sleep, for tomorrow we complete our destiny!”

“Long Live the Emperor!” was the shout that went around. Shahu waved his hands and then walked out, knowing his history and destiny was about to be made.

 

[souvikkundu25140017]

how much of south under their control?

 

[VVD0D95]

how much of south under their control?

Everything except Goa, the Seven Islands and Mysore

 

[souvikkundu25140017]

Seven island? Also why not Mysore?

 

[VVD0D95]

Seven island? Also why not Mysore?

OTL Mumbai. And they've had no need to head that far south, they've been more interested in Delhi

 

[souvikkundu25140017]

OTL Mumbai. And they've had no need to head that far south, they've been more interested in Delhi

hopefully, they will conquer it after they win Delhi? how much of east is under their rule? Bengal, Assam, and northeastern states?

who control Sri Lanka now?

 

[VVD0D95]

hopefully, they will conquer it after they win Delhi? how much of east is under their rule? Bengal, Assam, and northeastern states?

who control Sri Lanka now?

Bengal is under Muslim rule still, Assam is under the rule of the Ahoms, and Sri Lanka is divided between the Kingdom of Kandy and the Dutch

 

[AJNolte]

Just read this whole thing: it's very good.

As I've been doing some research on a similar time period for my own TL, a couple of religious questions:

-Since William and Mary didn't come to power here, I assume Sancroft served out his term, and was replaced by a less latitudinarian Archbishop than Tillotson? [My recommendation would be Thomas Ken, Bishop of Bath and Wells, who was a nonjuror OTL, but of whom Queen Anne was actually very fond IOTL].

-In general, does Anne's longer rule and the Tories much greater political success mean the high church party that was stronger in Anne's rule OTL is the dominant party in the C of E?

-Did the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel form as per OTL, and send missionaries to the colonies?

-IOTL, due to the alliance with Prussia during Anne's latter reign, there was discussion of a possible union of the Prussian Lutherans and the C of E. ITTL, since an Anglo-Swedish alliance seems to be developing--and since both churches, unlike in the Prussian case, have Bishops in apostolic succession--is this something that would be proposed? How would King James respond?

-Finally, IOTL Caroline of Ansbach's religious views were quite latitudinarian; in addition to serving as Walpole's patron, she was also patron to Benjamin Hoadley, Bishop of Bangor. ITTL, there's no particular reason she'd know Hoadley, since he was personal chaplain to George I, but I'm still curious where her religious inclinations lie?

William Law is a religious figure you might consider using, if you need one. He was a high churchmen and, IOTL, refused to take oath to the Hanoverians, but he was also a brilliant polemicist and his devotional work A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life was a major influence on the brothers Wesley. ITTL, no Hanoverian succession means he could rise within the church, and his blend of strong high church principles and devotional faith in what I'd call the proto-evangelical style could be pretty popular.

Also, the Scottish development is fascinating. Are the Scottish Episcopals using the 1662 BCP or the 1637 Scottish Prayer Book? Despite the general awesomeness of the latter, my guess is that the former probably irritates the ex-kirk Calvinists a lot less. [I'm not sure the Presbyterians would knuckle under as easily as they do here, but I'm not a Scottish expert. Some of my sources for the nonjuror TL indicated that Scottish Episcopalianism was quite popular, but given that they were later Anglo-Catholic historians, they aren't exactly unbiased.

Anyway, appreciate any answers, and if you have questions about the religious dynamics, I'm happy to help.

 

[VVD0D95]

Just read this whole thing: it's very good.

As I've been doing some research on a similar time period for my own TL, a couple of religious questions:

-Since William and Mary didn't come to power here, I assume Sancroft served out his term, and was replaced by a less latitudinarian Archbishop than Tillotson? [My recommendation would be Thomas Ken, Bishop of Bath and Wells, who was a nonjuror OTL, but of whom Queen Anne was actually very fond IOTL].

-In general, does Anne's longer rule and the Tories much greater political success mean the high church party that was stronger in Anne's rule OTL is the dominant party in the C of E?

-Did the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel form as per OTL, and send missionaries to the colonies?

-IOTL, due to the alliance with Prussia during Anne's latter reign, there was discussion of a possible union of the Prussian Lutherans and the C of E. ITTL, since an Anglo-Swedish alliance seems to be developing--and since both churches, unlike in the Prussian case, have Bishops in apostolic succession--is this something that would be proposed? How would King James respond?

-Finally, IOTL Caroline of Ansbach's religious views were quite latitudinarian; in addition to serving as Walpole's patron, she was also patron to Benjamin Hoadley, Bishop of Bangor. ITTL, there's no particular reason she'd know Hoadley, since he was personal chaplain to George I, but I'm still curious where her religious inclinations lie?

William Law is a religious figure you might consider using, if you need one. He was a high churchmen and, IOTL, refused to take oath to the Hanoverians, but he was also a brilliant polemicist and his devotional work A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life was a major influence on the brothers Wesley. ITTL, no Hanoverian succession means he could rise within the church, and his blend of strong high church principles and devotional faith in what I'd call the proto-evangelical style could be pretty popular.

Also, the Scottish development is fascinating. Are the Scottish Episcopals using the 1662 BCP or the 1637 Scottish Prayer Book? Despite the general awesomeness of the latter, my guess is that the former probably irritates the ex-kirk Calvinists a lot less. [I'm not sure the Presbyterians would knuckle under as easily as they do here, but I'm not a Scottish expert. Some of my sources for the nonjuror TL indicated that Scottish Episcopalianism was quite popular, but given that they were later Anglo-Catholic historians, they aren't exactly unbiased.

Anyway, appreciate any answers, and if you have questions about the religious dynamics, I'm happy to help.

Glad you're liking it

You're spot on there, Ken replaced Sancroft once the latter's term was done and dusted, his relationship with Anne was quite good ttl as it was otl.

In regards to Anne's longer rule and the success of the Tories does mean the High Church party dominates the CofE, that's correct, that will change a fair few things socially in due course.

Hmm, I'm not sure, King James might look on such a union favourably, but at the same time he might be hesitant about allowing foreigners into union with his church.

Here, she's a bit more low church compared to her husband, she thinks some of the services are a bit daft, but is happy enough to be patron to peolpe who respect the divine will of the King.

I'd pegged Law for a future Archbishop of Canterbury but wasn't sure if it was realistic for him to rise that far?

The 1637 one is currently in use, but James and his son George have plans to completely shift that, and bring the book more into line with their own theories on the church. Well, George more than anyone that is.

I did have an idea re Scotland, but was wondering if James or George would risk another Bishop#'s War now that the Scots are essentially on the same path.

 

[VVD0D95]

Chapter 200: Fall of Delhi



January, 1723​

Raif looked at the men running up and down, shifting their weight and bringing cannons and other weapons to the walls. He had never thought he would face such an invasion so soon. But then he had also thought he’d perhaps never inherit the throne. The fact his father had had his cousins killed, was the main reason he was on the throne. Raif stood on top of the north wall and looked into the distance. There was no army on the horizon, but they would be coming. Of that he knew.

He turned as a general approached. “Sire, word has come from Hodal.”

Immediately, Raif straightened and asked. “What news?” Hodal was where he had sent his general Bairam Khan to fight against the Maratha army. He had worried over Bairam’s trustworthiness, but the man had crushed an insurrection at Panipat months ago.

“Defeat for Bairam’s army, Sire.” The general said.

Raif nodded, his face expressionless though inside he was screaming. “And Bairam?”

“Dead, Sire.” The general replied.

Raif nodded. “Very well, return to your post.”

“Sire.” The general responded. He hurried off, Raif turned back to look out over the wall. So, Bairam was dead, his army defeated. There would be men returning from the battle, no doubt fleeing. He summoned for his squire. “Tell the generals to allow only those who bear our colours to return. Anyone else is to be killed on sight.”

“Sire.” The squire said before he hurried off to give the message along.

Raif took a deep breath. Soon enough, there would be battle and there would be war. His dynasty had ruled India since Babur had defeated the Lodhis at Panipat and now they were facing their destruction. He wondered if there was anything they could’ve done to prevent it. But there was nothing that came to mind. They were too ingrained in the mentality of the Turks of old. He sighed. There was no point in thinking about the past. Now only the present mattered. A squire came hurrying over to him. “Sire, one of the generals has spotted an army in the distance.”

Raif stuck his hand out for the looking glass. He put it to his eye and looked out. There was an army coming toward them, elephants, and cavalry and also mounted cannons. It was an interesting and terrifying sight. He pulled the looking glass away and said. “Very well.” He handed it back to the squire and turned. The men were all looking at him.

He cleared his throat and said. “Today we are to fight for our survival. In the future, they will speak not of what we achieved before, but of what we achieved today. We must stand and fight. We must ensure that those who would seek to replace us, that those who would seek to destroy us do not win. We are the descendants of Babur and this is our city, this is our empire.”

There were roars from the soldiery. “Long Live The Empire!”

“Long Live The Emperor!”

Raif nodded. “Today we fight, and we shall live and die by the sword.” Just as he finished, he heard a loud boom and then he was falling, falling, falling.

 

[Valena]

Britannia and France competing for largest Navy?!That's not right, Britannia rules the Waves!

Was the situation OTL during this time period. Though Britain had better naval administration, France actually was ahead of them in ship designs and building for a time.

 

[VVD0D95]

Was the situation OTL during this time period. Though Britain had better naval administration, France actually was ahead of them in ship designs and building for a time.

And with Louis XVI in charge, I think we'll see that for a time

 

[Valena]

I assume the Comte de Toulouse Admiralty administration is in charge TTL as well as was OTL (despite OTL Regent disliking Louis XIV bastards and denying Princes of Blood status for them, he kept Toulouse as Minister of the Navy). Ironic situation of admiralties of both countries headed by Royal bastards (Toulouse and Grafton respectively).

On unrelated news, I think that appanage granted to Duc d'Anjou in his own right would consist of Duchy of Vendome, Duchy of Mercœur and Duchy of Etampes, which TTL would be vacant by 1727 (and the Prince's wedding to his English bride), as the last holder, Philippe, Duc de Vendome, died in 1727 OTL and is likely to die circa the same time OTL.