Air and Space Photos from Alternate Worlds.
- Thread starter Wingman1
- Start date
The intake makes me think of what an old school jet fighter, like the F-86, would like if it was redesigned for the present day.
that looks like an F8 crusader front end
(and there is a good reason they look alike, fluid dynamics)
The Northrop-Grumman F/A-23A Sand Cat is an American stealth fighter. It is mainly used for close air support and air-to-ground combat, but has a reasonable air-to-air capability, but can't stand up to Soviet Su-57s and Su-75s, so it is often supplemented with F-22 escort fighters.
Last edited:
Changed the edition again, mostly because it gives me more room to play with and making it a post-war one gives me the possibility to use all my ideas.
Jane's All the Galaxy's Fighting Starships #8 (2429 edition)
Name: U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts (NCC-3431-C)
Type: Fleet Destroyer
Class: Lafayette-class (23rd of 24 (Batch I), built overall: 3294, additonal 400 authorized, undetermined number planned)
Nationality: Federation Starfleet (United Federation of Planets)
Service: Starfleet Service Date: 2401 - in Service )
Armaments: 8x Phaser Banks; 12x Point Phaser Emitters; 3x Fore, 2x Aft Torpedo launchers
Speed: (Type 2 Scale) Warp 9.7 (Max Cruise), Warp 9.9999 (at extreme risk)
Conceptually, the Lafayette-class started out as one of the earliest outgrowths of the Fleet reorganisation of the 2380s, but with the Galaxy at relative peace and a glut of Defiant-class ships that could fill Destroyer roles (and had done so with great success during the war) the need for a new purpose-built Destroyer was questioned at first. However, the Defiant had been designed with fighting the Borg in mind and still had the very samee design compromises and flaws that had kept the original out of service until being shanghaied by Captain Benjamin Sisko. While these had been corrected, the ships were simply not suited for long-term patrols away from fleet bases, a need for which quickly began to emerge by the end of the decade. As part of the same design initiative that ended up leading to the Venture-class program, the Lafayette was designed by a team under Commander LaForge.
LaForge and his team had a clear premise for the class, and their approach to making it work was similar to what they would later bring to the Venture-class. Starfleet wanted a ship that was capable of running solo patrols on the edges of Federation space as well as fulfilling more traditional screening and reconnaisance roles. In the past, the desire for 'one size fits all' ship designs, paired with Starfleet's orientation towards exploration over defence had led to designs such as the superb Galaxy-class, but also the deeply compromised New Orleans-class. So when it came to designing a Destroyer for the Federation's new, dedicated battlefleet, it was to no surprise that more inspiration was taken from the Defiant-class than any previous Destroyer-designated designs of the more recent past. This was reinforced when in 2383, the Federation Council and Starfleet Command decided to re-class all Escorts as Destroyers. Effectively this only affected the Defiants as none of the successor/supplemental designs considered had moved beyond the theoretical or early design stage.
Starfleet had not designed full Fleet Destroyers since a decade after the first Khitomer accords, peace with the Klingon Empire having supposedly eroded the need for such martial ships along with a lot of other things.
Still known as the Advanced Fleet Destroyer Program at the time it's beginning in 2385, the new class therefore posed a number of challenges. While getting any of the requirements done was easy, cramming all of them into a single hull and ending with something that the vast but already busy and finite ship-building capacity of the Federation could produce quickly, and in the numbers likely needed, was a considerable challenge. The existence of this entry obviously tells of their success, but what amazes is that the design, for all the pionerin technologies it contains, still uses a surprising number of off the shelf components.
Starting with the Warp core, the first component selected, as the power requirement would be massive compared to the ship's projected size. At the suggestion of Lieutenant-Commander B'Elanna Torres the core used was, slightly ironically, a development of the Class 7-F core that had powered the more recent production batches of the Defiant-class during and after the war. Dubbed the 'Ice heart' by it's Andorian creators, the new core was a scaled up version of the 7-F, theoretically capable of nearly two and a half times the power output of the core built into the original U.S.S. Defiant. Originally meant to power smaller cruisers for Starfleet, the end of the Dominion War and the general re-evaluation of Starfleet's role in the galaxy saw the project put on hold. LaForge approved of the idea, even though projections showed that this new system, dubbed the 7-G, would need some modifications. Most of these were to the power output lines as while at warp, more power than design spec would be drawn from it while at warp, due to the new coil designs.
The armament suite was massive for a ship of this size. The pulse phaser cannons of the Defiant-class had proven to be extremely powerful during the war, but at the same time their limited ark of fire made them unsuitable for larger ships that by dint of Newtonian physics would be less maneouverable than the Defiants, so conventional phasers and torpedo launchers were used. As the design evolved, the placement of the warp nacelles blocked precluded a near 360° arc of fire for any phaserbanks on the top side of the saucer, so a number of point phaser emitters were placed on the armoured nacelle housings and smaller phaser banks were dotted all over the hull. It is perhaps no coincidence that the class is often considered the origin point of the so-called phaser beam forrest, as it was the first design meant to be able to fire every phaser at once in spite of the extreme energy cost if a situation required it.
Propulsion-wise the class would be equipped with the same new-style warp coils now being incorporated into new or refitted into existing construction where possible and be able to sustain speeds upwards of Warp 9.5 indefinitely. The real innovation here came with the impulse engines. There too there was an upper limit to what physics would allow, but between new compensator designs, advances in field generation as well as impulse turn physics and the placement of additional auxiliary impulse thrusters in the nacelle struts allowed the ship incredible acceleration and maneouverability for it's size.
Internally, the design was a pure warship, but to a less extreme extent as the Defiant-class. It still lacked a science department or facilities to house one, but the sickbay facilities had been greatly extended. The class was intended for long-term patrols at the edge of Federation space and long-term fleet operations, so crew comfort was a primary consideration beyond the technical aspects of the design. Because of this, the crew quarters were relatively luxurious and a number of holosuites were also provided, something that was helped by the relatively small projected crew complement of 90.
The design was bug-tested and approved for construction in 2386, and in spring 2388 and U.S.S. Lafayette went on acceptance trials after an uncharacteristically short construction period for a starship. Entirely in keeping with the design goals set out for the class though, as it, together with the (then) un-named Utility cruiser concept that would evolve into the Venture-class and the then even less defined Primary Fleet Combatant which would become the Storm-class line of Battlecruisers was to make up the vast majority of the Federation battlefleet by 2420. Of course events intervened before this plan could be completed. Wartime production rates dwarfed pre-war expectations, which was one of the many reasons why the troika more than any other has come to symbolise Starfleet during the war, even though a number of other classes of the same type came into being since.
U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts was assigned to 5th Fleet under Captain Walker, before eventually moving to 1th Fleet, where she still served when war broke out.
Notes: Yes, eventually I will do some crap ship designs too. It's just that I wouldn't give this name, or any of the other names of Taffy 3 to ships of anything short of utter badassitude.
Having said that, since we have no real information on how big Federation space actually is and therefore what numbers would be needed, I won't make a definitive statement in-story about how big the fleet really is.
Jane's All the Galaxy's Fighting Starships #8 (2429 edition)
Name: U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts (NCC-3431-C)
Type: Fleet Destroyer
Class: Lafayette-class (23rd of 24 (Batch I), built overall: 3294, additonal 400 authorized, undetermined number planned)
Nationality: Federation Starfleet (United Federation of Planets)
Service: Starfleet Service Date: 2401 - in Service )
Armaments: 8x Phaser Banks; 12x Point Phaser Emitters; 3x Fore, 2x Aft Torpedo launchers
Speed: (Type 2 Scale) Warp 9.7 (Max Cruise), Warp 9.9999 (at extreme risk)
Conceptually, the Lafayette-class started out as one of the earliest outgrowths of the Fleet reorganisation of the 2380s, but with the Galaxy at relative peace and a glut of Defiant-class ships that could fill Destroyer roles (and had done so with great success during the war) the need for a new purpose-built Destroyer was questioned at first. However, the Defiant had been designed with fighting the Borg in mind and still had the very samee design compromises and flaws that had kept the original out of service until being shanghaied by Captain Benjamin Sisko. While these had been corrected, the ships were simply not suited for long-term patrols away from fleet bases, a need for which quickly began to emerge by the end of the decade. As part of the same design initiative that ended up leading to the Venture-class program, the Lafayette was designed by a team under Commander LaForge.
LaForge and his team had a clear premise for the class, and their approach to making it work was similar to what they would later bring to the Venture-class. Starfleet wanted a ship that was capable of running solo patrols on the edges of Federation space as well as fulfilling more traditional screening and reconnaisance roles. In the past, the desire for 'one size fits all' ship designs, paired with Starfleet's orientation towards exploration over defence had led to designs such as the superb Galaxy-class, but also the deeply compromised New Orleans-class. So when it came to designing a Destroyer for the Federation's new, dedicated battlefleet, it was to no surprise that more inspiration was taken from the Defiant-class than any previous Destroyer-designated designs of the more recent past. This was reinforced when in 2383, the Federation Council and Starfleet Command decided to re-class all Escorts as Destroyers. Effectively this only affected the Defiants as none of the successor/supplemental designs considered had moved beyond the theoretical or early design stage.
Starfleet had not designed full Fleet Destroyers since a decade after the first Khitomer accords, peace with the Klingon Empire having supposedly eroded the need for such martial ships along with a lot of other things.
Still known as the Advanced Fleet Destroyer Program at the time it's beginning in 2385, the new class therefore posed a number of challenges. While getting any of the requirements done was easy, cramming all of them into a single hull and ending with something that the vast but already busy and finite ship-building capacity of the Federation could produce quickly, and in the numbers likely needed, was a considerable challenge. The existence of this entry obviously tells of their success, but what amazes is that the design, for all the pionerin technologies it contains, still uses a surprising number of off the shelf components.
Starting with the Warp core, the first component selected, as the power requirement would be massive compared to the ship's projected size. At the suggestion of Lieutenant-Commander B'Elanna Torres the core used was, slightly ironically, a development of the Class 7-F core that had powered the more recent production batches of the Defiant-class during and after the war. Dubbed the 'Ice heart' by it's Andorian creators, the new core was a scaled up version of the 7-F, theoretically capable of nearly two and a half times the power output of the core built into the original U.S.S. Defiant. Originally meant to power smaller cruisers for Starfleet, the end of the Dominion War and the general re-evaluation of Starfleet's role in the galaxy saw the project put on hold. LaForge approved of the idea, even though projections showed that this new system, dubbed the 7-G, would need some modifications. Most of these were to the power output lines as while at warp, more power than design spec would be drawn from it while at warp, due to the new coil designs.
The armament suite was massive for a ship of this size. The pulse phaser cannons of the Defiant-class had proven to be extremely powerful during the war, but at the same time their limited ark of fire made them unsuitable for larger ships that by dint of Newtonian physics would be less maneouverable than the Defiants, so conventional phasers and torpedo launchers were used. As the design evolved, the placement of the warp nacelles blocked precluded a near 360° arc of fire for any phaserbanks on the top side of the saucer, so a number of point phaser emitters were placed on the armoured nacelle housings and smaller phaser banks were dotted all over the hull. It is perhaps no coincidence that the class is often considered the origin point of the so-called phaser beam forrest, as it was the first design meant to be able to fire every phaser at once in spite of the extreme energy cost if a situation required it.
Propulsion-wise the class would be equipped with the same new-style warp coils now being incorporated into new or refitted into existing construction where possible and be able to sustain speeds upwards of Warp 9.5 indefinitely. The real innovation here came with the impulse engines. There too there was an upper limit to what physics would allow, but between new compensator designs, advances in field generation as well as impulse turn physics and the placement of additional auxiliary impulse thrusters in the nacelle struts allowed the ship incredible acceleration and maneouverability for it's size.
Internally, the design was a pure warship, but to a less extreme extent as the Defiant-class. It still lacked a science department or facilities to house one, but the sickbay facilities had been greatly extended. The class was intended for long-term patrols at the edge of Federation space and long-term fleet operations, so crew comfort was a primary consideration beyond the technical aspects of the design. Because of this, the crew quarters were relatively luxurious and a number of holosuites were also provided, something that was helped by the relatively small projected crew complement of 90.
The design was bug-tested and approved for construction in 2386, and in spring 2388 and U.S.S. Lafayette went on acceptance trials after an uncharacteristically short construction period for a starship. Entirely in keeping with the design goals set out for the class though, as it, together with the (then) un-named Utility cruiser concept that would evolve into the Venture-class and the then even less defined Primary Fleet Combatant which would become the Storm-class line of Battlecruisers was to make up the vast majority of the Federation battlefleet by 2420. Of course events intervened before this plan could be completed. Wartime production rates dwarfed pre-war expectations, which was one of the many reasons why the troika more than any other has come to symbolise Starfleet during the war, even though a number of other classes of the same type came into being since.
U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts was assigned to 5th Fleet under Captain Walker, before eventually moving to 1th Fleet, where she still served when war broke out.
Notes: Yes, eventually I will do some crap ship designs too. It's just that I wouldn't give this name, or any of the other names of Taffy 3 to ships of anything short of utter badassitude.
Having said that, since we have no real information on how big Federation space actually is and therefore what numbers would be needed, I won't make a definitive statement in-story about how big the fleet really is.
Last edited:
since this is obviously post Voyagers return, wouldn't the ship now have the Voyager type deployable armour and Transphasic torpedos (and maybe even a transphasic cloak)?
The armour and the torpdoes would pretty much break the setting, so in that version, the generator burnt out and was unsalvageable, though it did give them some pointers towards next-gen hull construction methods, some of which all post-Engame ships have. All Starfleet vessels carry a few transphasic torpedoes, but they are only to be used against the Borg or under very extreme circumstances taht the responsible officer will have to justify with Starfleet Command later. He also needs authorization from two other officers, kinda like with the self-destruct.
In-universe all this is done to keep the existence of a golden bullet against borg ships low key lest the Borg develop countermeasures and someone steals them to be used against Starfleet.
Out of universe I did that because having effectively invincible ships that can solo and then one-shot everything else out there this side of Q's little ride from Encounter at Farpoint would be pretty boring and not fun for you to read and me to write. It'd take a number of years for everyone else to get their hands on the tech. It's my biggest gripe with Endgame, as the plot could have worked nearly unchanged if Admiral Janeway had brought the virus and nothing else.
Last edited:
btw the transphasic cloak is essentially what was tested on the Pegagsus that was later retrieved by the Enterprise.
Even if the technology is related (and that's not a given) it would still take a number of years to shrink it down and make it cheap enough to put it into a mass-deployed weapon like a torpedo.
That said, there will be tech progress that sticks (conventional cloaking devices among them) but not something that game-breaking.
USAF B-49 Bomber nick-named Bob's Boomerang being prepped for it's fateful nuclear strike on China after MacArthur's push into Manchuria during the Korean War (1950-54). Boomerang was the only aircraft of it's strike group to make it back to friendly territory and now occupies honored space at the National Air and Space Museum next to the B-29 Enola Gay. The aircraft commander, Maj. Robert "Bob" Davidson retired a short tie after the completion of this mission and refused award of the the Air Medal and the Medal of Honor. Davison lived the remainder of his life in relative seclusion in his home near Seattle and died (of causes which remain unclear to this day) in 1972. Davidson, and this mission were famously portrayed in the 1955 movie Strategic Air Command starring Jimmy Stewart.
You'll get to see it on a VCR like THIS,
Edit: folks who have never handled a VCR like this, imagine how a CRT screen is like to lift up and carry versus say one of those gossamer and glass flat-screen monitors, take the difference and exponentially expand that, yeah.
I quintuple-dog dare you to drop one of those on your toe. You won't forget that anytime soon.
responding to CJD's post,
I stumble into town just like a sacred cow
Visions of swastikas in my head
Plans for everyone
(Shivering, and not just because the AC is working.)
I stumble into town just like a sacred cow
Visions of swastikas in my head
Plans for everyone
(Shivering, and not just because the AC is working.)