The Sun, The Stars and The Sickle: Alt-WWII and a Tripolar Postwar World
- Thread starter WaterproofPotatoes
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That is just brilliantOne thing that hasn't been butterflied away is this famous picture:
This portrayal of Sir Winston proved to be quite popular, and German propaganda calling him a gangster and murderer backfired.
And de Gaulle was arrogant, vain and bellicose. But also just as good as he portrayed himself to be.
I see a weaker one that has a more divided security council. After all, the Soviet Union is communist, the old world empires are capitalist yet still imperialist, and the United States is capitalist yet anti imperialist (mostly). And then there's Italy and friends with their special brand of dictatorship.
Seems like there's less common ground for all these groups.
Of course, I kinda also predict the Soviets sliding closer to the Americans, so maybe I'm wrong.
The League of Nations is still around, although essentially dormant now. Notably, Japan never withdrew, nor was she expelled. As of January 1, 1942, the seat for China in the League is deemed to belong to the Union of China
Has the 442nd RCT been butterflied completely, or do we get to see them fighting next to expeditionary forces from the Home Islands?
OTL, they hadn't been formed until 1943 so I can't give that away just yet. However, Hawaii still has a large Japanese population TTL so it's entirely possible.
That's mostly fair; when I posted I wasn't thinking about TTL only being in mid-42. On the other hand, a similar unit might be formed earlier without the threat of a Japanese invasion to hold them back. Bog-standard racism probably; fear of treason probably not?
How did I miss this? Weird.
I wonder if/when Italy is going to be spoken to. They're still neutral, so Italian support during landings would be invaluable, as it'd give a backup port in case they fail. Though, I doubt the Italians want Germany to turn its wrath on their nation.
I know the US was trying to rope in some other nations in the Americas (Brazil in particular). Might some of them be seeing combat, if not at D-Day, but later on during the invasion?
I wonder if/when Italy is going to be spoken to. They're still neutral, so Italian support during landings would be invaluable, as it'd give a backup port in case they fail. Though, I doubt the Italians want Germany to turn its wrath on their nation.
I know the US was trying to rope in some other nations in the Americas (Brazil in particular). Might some of them be seeing combat, if not at D-Day, but later on during the invasion?
Brazil is going to be an interesting case. With a less exhausted Britain and a Churchill that can be more... strident in his disagreements with Roosevelt, so the Americans will want some allies that they can more directly influence. With Mexico strictly neutral (except for the initial sale of some Mexican-made Mendoza LMGs), Brazil and the Union of China are the biggest members of the American sphere of influence.
Brazil's Vargas is already quite pro-American, and with the USA transferring destroyers and extending credit for arms purchases, it is even easier for Brazil to become involved.
As for Mussolini, he'll be hard to convince as of now. Hitler's advance into the Soviet Union, as well as the Allies' struggles in the Far East do much to sow doubt. On top of that, the rest of the Mediterranean Accord want to stay neutral as well. It will take a lot to convince Franco and Salazar, and in Yugoslavia, only the Croat agitator Ante Pavelić wants to declare for the Pact of Steel. Italy could go it on its own for either side, but that may jeopardize the integrity of the Accord.
That would definitely have some consequences.
It would certainly violate Italy's neutrality- the Pact of Steel is definitely going to notice. However, even if it does, it might not be certain doom for Italy. The Regio Esercito has had more time to prepare TTL, and the Austro-Italian border is along exceedingly difficult terrain, and guarded by the Alpini, Italy's best soldiers.
Also of concern are the Soviet ships that Italy is still performing work on and the Soviets are still not making payments on. If Italy siezes them, that totally throws off the balance of forces in the Mediterranean. It would give the Italians two huge 60 000 ton battleships, four modern 44 000 t battleships (the four Littorios all completed to Roma's larger size TTL), and four old 12"-gunned WWI era battleships.
The Allies, by contrast, have global commitments beyond the Mediterranean, so even though the Royal Navy and Marine Nationale have more ships total, they are spread farther.
The Royal Navy's base at Valletta, Malta is quite crowded, and the anchorage at Alexandria is less than ideal- dockyard facilities are small and marine life rapidly fouls the bottoms of ships left in Alexandria for too long. The French naval base at Mers-el-Kébir is still incomplete on top of everything else. The Royal Navy, wary of the hazards within the Mediterranean, also tends to keep its valuable fast capital ships out. This leaves the typical force in the Med as the 40 000 ton battleships Triumph and Orion, the Queen Elizabeth class battleship Valiant and her less modernized sister Barham; the R-class battleship Resolution and the carriers Eagle, Argus, and Victorious. Along with these units are the French battleship Richelieu (which the Admiralty is requesting undertake far cover duties for convoys due to her speed, so Renown and Repulse can both be refitted) and small battleship Dunkerque. While this is more than adequate for four Littorios and four old battlewagons, there is nothing that can directly compare with 60 000 ton battleships. Furthermore, only Richelieu is capable of over 30 kn, although the 28.25 kn Triumphs can be forced to nearly 30.
Granted, the Allies can bottle up the Med at both ends, but that is not an ideal scenario.
The Italians also enjoy a numerical advantage in heavy cruisers and submarines in the Med.
That is, of course, if Stalin doesn't press the issue of losing his battleships too hard...
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Well, if Stalin doesn't pay and Benny confiscates the ships, what can the Soviets do ? There's no way they can (or even want to) invade Italy or the Mediterannean Pact.
If the Italians seize the Soviet ships, considering they're over treaty limitations, the Allies could go for a compromise. The Italians can keep the new ships at their current tonnage, but must sell or scrap older vessels until they reach their treaty allotment of tonnage for capital ships. I'm going for sell, as not only would it allow Mussolini to save face, and to recoup some of his expenses, but it would tie other Mediterranean powers closer to Italy, as Spain and Greece might just be interested in older Italian battleships.
You mean the treaty limitations currently being flagrantly ignored by the worlds leading navies and their new building programs
Indeed. There's also the fact that the Allies won't want to push the Mediterannean Pact into the arms of the Germans. And once the war is finished, the Imperial Pact, the USA and Soviet Union all won't want to push Mussolini and his allies into each other's arms either. So I don't think anyone will seriously bother the Italians about those ships, not when the Med Pact is not threatening anyone and there's bigger fish.
No, but assuming they're toothless and totally won't hold a grudge over it, well.....
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