Oliver North is a very unusual choice for VP, and in 2001 he was relatively low profile having only just started his War Stories program on Fox News, and was almost 6 years removed from his only foray into politics (1994 VA Senate). Not to mention he only ever achieved the rank of Lieutenant Colonel in the marines before retiring to prevent a dishonorable discharge. Even in a worse-post-9/11 scenario he'd be seen as too inexperienced and too politically toxic to make it past senate conformations ESPECIALLY considering President Thurmond's age. The Congress would only consider someone with much more experience since they know they'd likely be appointing the next President of the United States, however I could see North getting another position in the administration despite his checkered past.
Us Against The World: How The Jewish Defense League Paved the Road to Socialism
- Thread starter Oppo
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- 9/11 strom thurmond tupac
Bookmark1995
Banned
I think the fact that this nut is even celebrated OTL proves how utterly polarized our political direction has become.
I maintain that there should be far more pushback from within the GOP over this. Trent Lott might be content remaining the power behind the throne, but not everyone can occupy that "position," so folks like Tom DeLay will still be fuming.
Bookmark1995
Banned
DeLay is an opportunist. If he can politically profit from this nonsense, he will.
Update V
Oliver North was President of the United States.
North was the prime example of those in power getting an unfair advantage in criminal justice. The so-called patriotic hero earned himself some expensive speaking engagements and a national radio show for international drug dealing, whilst an impoverished African-American caught smoking rotted in prison. But this was America, and everyone but the most stingy anti-social political nerds forgot about Iran-Contra. Hell, the 1989 novel, A Prayer For Owen Meany establishes John Wheelwright as the only one who cares about the scandal.
The question of the 2004 election was whether the American public approved of North’s post-9/11 security theater. Sure, Americans may have felt good about helping freedom fighters in Darfur, but did they still care when their family members came home in caskets? The bombing campaign in Pakistan may have been illegal, but it wasn’t putting any American lives in jeopardy. This was the question the Democratic field had to delicately balance.
The media had anointed Washington Mayor Anthony A. Williams as the frontrunner. Until 2001, Williams was a boring bureaucrat who most Americans might have confused for Farrakhan on the part of his bow-tie. After 9/11, he was “America’s Mayor” for making non-stop TV appearances in front of the White House’s wreckage. Williams benefited from 9/11 just as much as President Thurmond did due to his much stronger personal mobility. His candidacy brought the Third Way onto his side, who liked his moderate positions on the economy.
Of course, no one was more representative of the Third Way than Joe Lieberman. The unexpected vice presidential nominee in 2000 had amassed a reputation for being the most pro-war member of the Democratic Party, frequently standing by President North’s decisions. That may have earned him some political points in the beginning of the presidential term, but this was a presidential year, and acting like Lieberman did was effectively career suicide.
The other top-tier candidate was Dick Gephardt, straight off his fourth failure to become speaker. Gephardt was a stalwart Democrat and a friend of labor (despite his social conservative past); an old fashioned Democrat. His plans to expand the welfare state, protectionist trade policies, and legislative acumen were enough to put him in second or third place.
Other candidates included Senator John Kerry, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Reverend Al Sharpton, and former Senator Carol Moseley Braun.
The main lower-tier candidate who broke through was former Senator Mike Gravel, who had returned after two decades in the political wilderness. Despite suffering from back pain and neuropathy, Gravel represented the most fiery campaigner the Democrats had and the most open to condemning Oliver North. Unlike his main rivals, Gravel opposed the Iraq and Sudan Wars and supported a more radical form of universal health care than Dick Gephardt.
With a few standout debate appearances, Gravel surged from last place to second or third. While Iowa and New Hampshire were won by Gephardt and Lieberman respectively, their results were practically split four ways. Williams rebounded in Mini Tuesday, taking Arizona, South Carolina, and New Mexico. The rest of February was Gravel’s country, granting him victories in Michigan, Washington, Maine, and Hawaii. Super Tuesday allowed the established candidates to bounce back, but it was clear to all of the candidates that there would be a brokered convention.
After ballot one, Gephardt agreed to endorse Williams in exchange for the vice presidential slot. Clinton and Gore both urged for a Williams victory on the second ballot, which he pulled off over Gravel and Lieberman. An angry Joe Lieberman declared the Democratic Party to be “drunk with power” and branded Al Gore a “backstabber.” The Gravel camp were also very upset. The Senator advocated for tactical voting against Oliver North, but refused to support Williams’ candidacy outright.
The Republicans were in a bit of a mess as well. Ron Paul’s quixotic primary challenge left Oliver North with egg on his face in New Hampshire. Like Gravel, Paul gained a cult following and went on to win Vermont, Rhode Island, and Minnesota. Paul’s campaign revealed divisions in the Republican Party, with his anti-war movement reviving the support of Governor Eastwood and Senator Chafee.
Senator John McCain ended up having a bigger impact on the general election. One would expect McCain to be a staunch ally of North; both were Vietnam-era Naval Academy graduates and staunch war hawks. Yet, when their two minds collided, things didn't go well. McCain was staunchly opposed to North’s new friendship with Gaddafi, wanted to end the religious right’s influence on Republican politics, and maintained a friendship with General Colin Powell after the “Powell Coup.” Before 9/11, McCain had thought about joining the Democratic Senate caucus, but Jim Jeffords’ decision to stay in the GOP (well, for a few months) put him off. But by 2004, McCain had maintained his distinct voice in the Senate and seemingly had more respect from Democrats and Republicans than President North. With his friend Joe Lieberman at his side, McCain announced an independent candidacy.
Suddenly, the Arizona maverick was striking distance from Williams and North. Americans didn’t want a loony militarist, nor a soft bureaucrat. McCain took the best aspects of both candidates. And what about Ralph Nader? Back for his third presidential campaign, Nader presented himself as the only open antiwar candidate. Anthony Williams was forced to attack Nader just as much as he did Ollie North. The presidential debates had to install a fourth lectern.
In 2004, there were some early signs at the eventual collapse of the Sixth Party System. Oliver North stopped declaring himself a Republican candidate, and chose Democratic Senator Zell Miller as his running mate. In the mold of Abraham Lincoln, he formed the National Union ticket in favor of the War on Terror. Nader, while running as an independent, received the endorsements of the Green and Reform parties. Lincoln Chafee was a keynote speaker at the 2004 DNC, and likely would have become Williams’ running mate if it weren’t for the “corrupt bargain” with Gephardt. McCain’s independent candidate had the support of several minor local parties, regular third party voters, and several well-respected Republican and Democratic statesmen.
Perhaps what doomed the opposition in 2004 was that Williams and McCain were trying to beat North in a battle of who was toughest on terror. Williams’ candidacy was largely based on him being a strong leader during 9/11, and McCain brought up his military record. The Overton Window shifted significantly; why not go to war with Syria, or Iran? Ralph Nader rejected ideas of him being a spoiler, saying that he was the only candidate of the “Peace Party” against three from the “War Party.” While just a slogan, it wasn’t too far from the truth, and Nader’s place on the debate stage allowed him a platform to exceed his 2000 performance.
On Election Day, the public’s bickering and arguing culminated in a final vote. Voters across the country came across issues with their ballots, due to voter purges. Voter resignation became increasingly difficult, and exit polls seemed to mislead the country. It seemed the country was in for a repeat of 2000, and in several ways, it was. Oliver North was re-elected despite losing the popular vote. There weren’t any Florida-style disputed states; North’s electoral college victory was quite convincing. However, there was a great sense of disappointment from the public than someone could win the presidency with 60% of the country voting against them. Downballot, the Republicans lost their Senate majority even more. Tom Daschle’s Democrats commanded 56 of the 100 seats in the Senate, a coalition of old Dixiecrats, young Clintonites, and firebrand progressives.
North was the prime example of those in power getting an unfair advantage in criminal justice. The so-called patriotic hero earned himself some expensive speaking engagements and a national radio show for international drug dealing, whilst an impoverished African-American caught smoking rotted in prison. But this was America, and everyone but the most stingy anti-social political nerds forgot about Iran-Contra. Hell, the 1989 novel, A Prayer For Owen Meany establishes John Wheelwright as the only one who cares about the scandal.
The question of the 2004 election was whether the American public approved of North’s post-9/11 security theater. Sure, Americans may have felt good about helping freedom fighters in Darfur, but did they still care when their family members came home in caskets? The bombing campaign in Pakistan may have been illegal, but it wasn’t putting any American lives in jeopardy. This was the question the Democratic field had to delicately balance.
The media had anointed Washington Mayor Anthony A. Williams as the frontrunner. Until 2001, Williams was a boring bureaucrat who most Americans might have confused for Farrakhan on the part of his bow-tie. After 9/11, he was “America’s Mayor” for making non-stop TV appearances in front of the White House’s wreckage. Williams benefited from 9/11 just as much as President Thurmond did due to his much stronger personal mobility. His candidacy brought the Third Way onto his side, who liked his moderate positions on the economy.
Of course, no one was more representative of the Third Way than Joe Lieberman. The unexpected vice presidential nominee in 2000 had amassed a reputation for being the most pro-war member of the Democratic Party, frequently standing by President North’s decisions. That may have earned him some political points in the beginning of the presidential term, but this was a presidential year, and acting like Lieberman did was effectively career suicide.
The other top-tier candidate was Dick Gephardt, straight off his fourth failure to become speaker. Gephardt was a stalwart Democrat and a friend of labor (despite his social conservative past); an old fashioned Democrat. His plans to expand the welfare state, protectionist trade policies, and legislative acumen were enough to put him in second or third place.
Other candidates included Senator John Kerry, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Reverend Al Sharpton, and former Senator Carol Moseley Braun.
The main lower-tier candidate who broke through was former Senator Mike Gravel, who had returned after two decades in the political wilderness. Despite suffering from back pain and neuropathy, Gravel represented the most fiery campaigner the Democrats had and the most open to condemning Oliver North. Unlike his main rivals, Gravel opposed the Iraq and Sudan Wars and supported a more radical form of universal health care than Dick Gephardt.
With a few standout debate appearances, Gravel surged from last place to second or third. While Iowa and New Hampshire were won by Gephardt and Lieberman respectively, their results were practically split four ways. Williams rebounded in Mini Tuesday, taking Arizona, South Carolina, and New Mexico. The rest of February was Gravel’s country, granting him victories in Michigan, Washington, Maine, and Hawaii. Super Tuesday allowed the established candidates to bounce back, but it was clear to all of the candidates that there would be a brokered convention.
After ballot one, Gephardt agreed to endorse Williams in exchange for the vice presidential slot. Clinton and Gore both urged for a Williams victory on the second ballot, which he pulled off over Gravel and Lieberman. An angry Joe Lieberman declared the Democratic Party to be “drunk with power” and branded Al Gore a “backstabber.” The Gravel camp were also very upset. The Senator advocated for tactical voting against Oliver North, but refused to support Williams’ candidacy outright.
The Republicans were in a bit of a mess as well. Ron Paul’s quixotic primary challenge left Oliver North with egg on his face in New Hampshire. Like Gravel, Paul gained a cult following and went on to win Vermont, Rhode Island, and Minnesota. Paul’s campaign revealed divisions in the Republican Party, with his anti-war movement reviving the support of Governor Eastwood and Senator Chafee.
Senator John McCain ended up having a bigger impact on the general election. One would expect McCain to be a staunch ally of North; both were Vietnam-era Naval Academy graduates and staunch war hawks. Yet, when their two minds collided, things didn't go well. McCain was staunchly opposed to North’s new friendship with Gaddafi, wanted to end the religious right’s influence on Republican politics, and maintained a friendship with General Colin Powell after the “Powell Coup.” Before 9/11, McCain had thought about joining the Democratic Senate caucus, but Jim Jeffords’ decision to stay in the GOP (well, for a few months) put him off. But by 2004, McCain had maintained his distinct voice in the Senate and seemingly had more respect from Democrats and Republicans than President North. With his friend Joe Lieberman at his side, McCain announced an independent candidacy.
Suddenly, the Arizona maverick was striking distance from Williams and North. Americans didn’t want a loony militarist, nor a soft bureaucrat. McCain took the best aspects of both candidates. And what about Ralph Nader? Back for his third presidential campaign, Nader presented himself as the only open antiwar candidate. Anthony Williams was forced to attack Nader just as much as he did Ollie North. The presidential debates had to install a fourth lectern.
In 2004, there were some early signs at the eventual collapse of the Sixth Party System. Oliver North stopped declaring himself a Republican candidate, and chose Democratic Senator Zell Miller as his running mate. In the mold of Abraham Lincoln, he formed the National Union ticket in favor of the War on Terror. Nader, while running as an independent, received the endorsements of the Green and Reform parties. Lincoln Chafee was a keynote speaker at the 2004 DNC, and likely would have become Williams’ running mate if it weren’t for the “corrupt bargain” with Gephardt. McCain’s independent candidate had the support of several minor local parties, regular third party voters, and several well-respected Republican and Democratic statesmen.
Perhaps what doomed the opposition in 2004 was that Williams and McCain were trying to beat North in a battle of who was toughest on terror. Williams’ candidacy was largely based on him being a strong leader during 9/11, and McCain brought up his military record. The Overton Window shifted significantly; why not go to war with Syria, or Iran? Ralph Nader rejected ideas of him being a spoiler, saying that he was the only candidate of the “Peace Party” against three from the “War Party.” While just a slogan, it wasn’t too far from the truth, and Nader’s place on the debate stage allowed him a platform to exceed his 2000 performance.
On Election Day, the public’s bickering and arguing culminated in a final vote. Voters across the country came across issues with their ballots, due to voter purges. Voter resignation became increasingly difficult, and exit polls seemed to mislead the country. It seemed the country was in for a repeat of 2000, and in several ways, it was. Oliver North was re-elected despite losing the popular vote. There weren’t any Florida-style disputed states; North’s electoral college victory was quite convincing. However, there was a great sense of disappointment from the public than someone could win the presidency with 60% of the country voting against them. Downballot, the Republicans lost their Senate majority even more. Tom Daschle’s Democrats commanded 56 of the 100 seats in the Senate, a coalition of old Dixiecrats, young Clintonites, and firebrand progressives.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Oh god. Was Miller really the kind of person who would work with the likes of Oliver North?
He was basically a Republican near the end of his career - supporting mandatory school prayer, branding the Democrats as secular socialists, supporting Newt Gingrich in 2012, and advocating for a huge increase in defense spending because America couldn’t trust France post-Iraq.
President Ollie North? Oh dear, to quote a good old man, it sounds better in original German...
Bookmark1995
Banned
OTL, Ollie North, the man who traded weapons to Iran, is held up as an American hero by a good number of Americans is just one example of deranged doublethink Americans seem to live in nowadays.
The idea of Anthony Williams as "America's Mayor" is great though I'm not surprised he was obliterated in the general. I can't imagine any DC official not having that happen if they won the nomination.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Was Williams considered to be a real "man of the people", or would indulge in self-aggrandizement like Giuliani did?
Fun idea: A TL where Marion Berry is in DC when this happens. Suddenly, a man who was caught smoking crack on tape becomes "America's mayor."
Update VI
The October Crisis
October 2006 was the start of two wars between the Western world and so-called “rogue nations.” Both conflicts were tremendous foreign policy embarrassments for the West and resulted in the first use of nuclear weapons in warfare since World War II.
The conflict started on October 3, 2006, when an underground nuclear explosion was detected by US intelligence. Following this, the North Korean government announced it has successfully performed a nuclear test. President North began to ramp up U.S. rhetoric with Korea, saying that “no options are off the table.” Without consulting the South Korean government of President Roh Moo-hyun, North ordered a preemptive nuclear strike on Pyongyang on October 13, believing that an attack from the DPRK was imminent. Minutes later, the North Koreans retaliated by launching an attack on the capital of Seoul, wiping out the South Korean government and destroying most major industry. Despite the deaths of countless South Korean leaders, President Roh Moo-hyun, who was in Beijing, survived. With both Koreas having much of their leadership taken out, military commanders acted on their own orders and rushed any remaining soldiers to the frontlines. President North quickly ordered all US troops in the Pacific to be taken to Korea and swiftly capitulate the North Korean government. The death of Kim Il-sung left no credible government to accept a surrender, and while North Korea swiftly fell under US-ROK occupation, insurgencies have continued to this day. The South Korean economy collapsed, destroying several important industries. The world economy quickly spiraled into a recession.
At home, the American public were outraged President North could start a conflict that left millions killed and brought more destabilization to the region. The 2006 midterm elections gave the Democratic Party under Tom Daschle and David Bonior a supermajority. Already, several Democratic leaders were pledging to introduce articles of impeachment for launching an unjust nuclear attack, on top of other offenses committed during the North administration, such as the bombing of Pakistan. Congressional investigations also strayed tarted looking at possible extortion charges committed by the president.
On October 15th, 2006, an incident took place between the British and Iranian navies. Upon hearing a voice claiming British naval ships would be exploded, Britain fired at the five Iranian patrol boats. A full naval battle escalated, leading Prime Minister Tony Blair to issue a declaration of war on Iran, expecting a quick victory. It was later revealed that the threats were not the product of the Iranian navy but were a Filipino monkey prank. At the same time, Israel were at war with Lebanon and Syria due to conflicts with the Iranian-backed Hezbollah. Prime Minister Avigdor Lieberman joined Blair’s war. Iran promptly responded with air strikes on Tel Aviv, and Israel was met with various terrorist attacks from an energized Muslim world.
The Anglo-Israeli forces launched a naval invasion on the Southern coast of Iran, expecting an easy war that would quickly bring Tehran to the negotiating table. They were wrong, as 19 ships and over 20,000 servicemen ended up on the bottom of the Persian Gulf. While Lieberman wanted to continue the war, possibly invoking the Samson Option, Tony Blair knew his political career was over. Nine years in office turned the charismatic pretty face of Cool Britannia into a heartless warmonger. A dozen hard left MPs defected to the Respect Party, whilst Gordon Brown swiftly made his move and removed Blair from office. The ensuing general election in early 2007 gave a resounding boost to Edward Leigh’s Tories and the Liberal Democrats of Charles Kennedy (who had made a triumphant comeback). Leigh formed a majority government after Labour fell to their lowest numbers since 1983. Lieberman left power in Israel in favor of Ami Ayalon, though the surging far-right in Israel used the war as a rallying cry. The ensuing peace treaty forced Israel to return to its 1967 borders, although negotiations toward the formation of a Palestinian state were unsuccessful, leaving the West Bank in a state of limbo.
October 2006 was the start of two wars between the Western world and so-called “rogue nations.” Both conflicts were tremendous foreign policy embarrassments for the West and resulted in the first use of nuclear weapons in warfare since World War II.
The conflict started on October 3, 2006, when an underground nuclear explosion was detected by US intelligence. Following this, the North Korean government announced it has successfully performed a nuclear test. President North began to ramp up U.S. rhetoric with Korea, saying that “no options are off the table.” Without consulting the South Korean government of President Roh Moo-hyun, North ordered a preemptive nuclear strike on Pyongyang on October 13, believing that an attack from the DPRK was imminent. Minutes later, the North Koreans retaliated by launching an attack on the capital of Seoul, wiping out the South Korean government and destroying most major industry. Despite the deaths of countless South Korean leaders, President Roh Moo-hyun, who was in Beijing, survived. With both Koreas having much of their leadership taken out, military commanders acted on their own orders and rushed any remaining soldiers to the frontlines. President North quickly ordered all US troops in the Pacific to be taken to Korea and swiftly capitulate the North Korean government. The death of Kim Il-sung left no credible government to accept a surrender, and while North Korea swiftly fell under US-ROK occupation, insurgencies have continued to this day. The South Korean economy collapsed, destroying several important industries. The world economy quickly spiraled into a recession.
At home, the American public were outraged President North could start a conflict that left millions killed and brought more destabilization to the region. The 2006 midterm elections gave the Democratic Party under Tom Daschle and David Bonior a supermajority. Already, several Democratic leaders were pledging to introduce articles of impeachment for launching an unjust nuclear attack, on top of other offenses committed during the North administration, such as the bombing of Pakistan. Congressional investigations also strayed tarted looking at possible extortion charges committed by the president.
On October 15th, 2006, an incident took place between the British and Iranian navies. Upon hearing a voice claiming British naval ships would be exploded, Britain fired at the five Iranian patrol boats. A full naval battle escalated, leading Prime Minister Tony Blair to issue a declaration of war on Iran, expecting a quick victory. It was later revealed that the threats were not the product of the Iranian navy but were a Filipino monkey prank. At the same time, Israel were at war with Lebanon and Syria due to conflicts with the Iranian-backed Hezbollah. Prime Minister Avigdor Lieberman joined Blair’s war. Iran promptly responded with air strikes on Tel Aviv, and Israel was met with various terrorist attacks from an energized Muslim world.
The Anglo-Israeli forces launched a naval invasion on the Southern coast of Iran, expecting an easy war that would quickly bring Tehran to the negotiating table. They were wrong, as 19 ships and over 20,000 servicemen ended up on the bottom of the Persian Gulf. While Lieberman wanted to continue the war, possibly invoking the Samson Option, Tony Blair knew his political career was over. Nine years in office turned the charismatic pretty face of Cool Britannia into a heartless warmonger. A dozen hard left MPs defected to the Respect Party, whilst Gordon Brown swiftly made his move and removed Blair from office. The ensuing general election in early 2007 gave a resounding boost to Edward Leigh’s Tories and the Liberal Democrats of Charles Kennedy (who had made a triumphant comeback). Leigh formed a majority government after Labour fell to their lowest numbers since 1983. Lieberman left power in Israel in favor of Ami Ayalon, though the surging far-right in Israel used the war as a rallying cry. The ensuing peace treaty forced Israel to return to its 1967 borders, although negotiations toward the formation of a Palestinian state were unsuccessful, leaving the West Bank in a state of limbo.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Good lord.
I am no fan of North, but was he really so nuts as to use a nuclear weapon?
I am no fan of North, but was he really so nuts as to use a nuclear weapon?