The Footprint of Mussolini - TL

[Drizzt]

What people in the 20th century around this era would you all be interested in? Minor political or more major cultural

Well those two do tend to intertwine a lot.

I’d be interested in how the Anti-Stalinist Left develops.

Seconded and also with one addendum: I'd also particularly would like to see TTLs Left stance on robost defense vs pacifism. After all in TTL not only are many more on the Left going to be anti-USSR, which will already undercut support for the Peacenik, Unilataral Disarmament, Tankie, etc factions in TTL. But also the Cold War is 3way with a Fascist Block to worry about. Nobody from OTLs Cold War Left would argue to appease them.
And to transfer that to Culture: I'd suggest that would affect the scripts of TTLs Dr Who and Star Trek. Although in Star Trek more the TNG storylines than the TOS ones.

 

[twistedirregular]

What people in the 20th century around this era would you all be interested in? Minor political or more major cultural

I'd be interested to see what's happening in Ethiopia.

 

[r1ncewind]

And sweden!

 

[RedLegion]

I love it. An alternate take on Star Wars.

I'd like to see an alternate version of this baby:

 

[Alpha-King98760]

I'd like to see an alternate version of this baby:View attachment 465211

I’m guessing this alternate version is not comedy and is instead a glorification of fascism as it goes interstellar?

 

[Bookmark1995]

I’m guessing this alternate version is not comedy and is instead a glorification of fascism as it goes interstellar?

That would be insanely creepy: glorifying fascism being seen as acceptable.

 

[Alpha-King98760]

That would be insanely creepy: glorifying fascism being seen as acceptable.

Well what else would it be?

 

[Bookmark1995]

Well what else would it be?

My hope is ITTL that history books don't gloss over the fact that Mussolini was a terrible man who simply became an ally of convenience.

 

[Alpha-King98760]

My hope is ITTL that history books don't gloss over the fact that Mussolini was a terrible man who simply became an ally of convenience.

They probably will...at least outside Italy and Israel.

 

[thanix01]

I feel like Fascism will be like how communism is treated in this timeline. People know bad things happen under fascist government but they will blame horrible action on person in charge (of course mussolini himself will not get criticized only other RA leader) not the ideology.

Mussolini will probably be treated like Mao in this timeline.

 

[Bookmark1995]

They probably will...at least outside Italy and Israel.

Israel's willingness to overlook Mussolini is kind of justified.

As frustrating as Israel's actions are, you have to remember that it was a country founded by people who were victims of the most systematic act of murder in history, and it is surrounding by nations eager to "push it into the sea." Israel needs whatever allies it can get.

Italy's actions might depend on what government replaces fascism.

I feel like Fascism will be like how communism is treated in this timeline. People know bad things happen under fascist government but they will blame horrible action on person in charge (of course mussolini himself will not get criticized only other RA leader) not the ideology.

Mussolini will probably be treated like Mao in this timeline.

I don't know. Fascism ITTL seems to be seen as "while not great, at least better then living in a badly managed Communist dystopia." In fact, the myth of the trains running on time might last longer ITTL.

 

[Alpha-King98760]

Israel's willingness to overlook Mussolini is kind of justified.

As frustrating as Israel's actions are, you have to remember that it was a country founded by people who were victims of the most systematic act of murder in history, and it is surrounding by nations eager to "push it into the sea." Israel needs whatever allies it can get.

Italy's actions might depend on what government replaces fascism.

Oh I completely understand Israel’s reasons to overlook Mussolini, I’m just saying that Israel will hold Il Duce in a very good light.

 

[RedLegion]

I’m guessing this alternate version is not comedy and is instead a glorification of fascism as it goes interstellar?

More like one of those silly sci-fi movies from the fifties with fishbowl helmets and shiny suits

 

[Bookmark1995]

Oh I completely understand Israel’s reasons to overlook Mussolini, I’m just saying that Israel will hold Il Duce in a very good light.

I can imagine ITTL statues of Il Duce will be built in every major city...but by the early 21st century, as more people take a better look at Mussolini and his actions, there will be those who start to question whether it is right to keep those statues.

Like how in America, Confederate statues are also coming under tremendous scrutiny.

"Does saving hundreds of thousands Jewish lives make up for the mass graves he created in Slovenia, Ethiopia, Serbia, and Libya," some people might ask themselves.

 

[Herr Frage]

What people in the 20th century around this era would you all be interested in? Minor political or more major cultural

Anyone in Ireland & Northern Ireland come to mind?

 

[RyuDrago]

I can imagine ITTL statues of Il Duce will be built in every major city...but by the early 21st century, as more people take a better look at Mussolini and his actions, there will be those who start to question whether it is right to keep those statues.

Like how in America, Confederate statues are also coming under tremendous scrutiny.

"Does saving hundreds of thousands Jewish lives make up for the mass graves he created in Slovenia, Ethiopia, Serbia, and Libya," some people might ask themselves.

Fascist rethoric would always counter France and Britain made their own colonial massacres as well, the Slovenians started first, and the Serbians oppressed the Croats.

But sometimes I wonder if in more normal circumstances - other TLs where Italy would stay neutral and reject the racial laws - there would have been this cordial relation. Probably not because Mussolini was more pro Arab but also wonder how he could have related with one like Nasser.

Paradoxally a fascism not bound with nazism shouldn't have been prejudicially antisemite even in other divergences - at least in Italy. Considering also antisemitism post WWII was and is strong not only on the right but also on the left. Certain OTL Italian radical left pro-palestine hide certain antisemitic prejudices. But it comes in my mind also the current situation of British Labour...

 

[Food-Oh_Koon]

That would be insanely creepy: glorifying fascism being seen as acceptable.

In this timeline, the Italians are the victors of the war. History is written by the victors.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Fascist rethoric would always counter France and Britain made their own colonial massacres as well, the Slovenians started first, and the Serbians oppressed the Croats.

But sometimes I wonder if in more normal circumstances - other TLs where Italy would stay neutral and reject the racial laws - there would have been this cordial relation. Probably not because Mussolini was more pro Arab but also wonder how he could have related with one like Nasser.

Paradoxally a fascism not bound with nazism shouldn't have been prejudicially antisemite even in other divergences - at least in Italy. Considering also antisemitism post WWII was and is strong not only on the right but also on the left. Certain OTL Italian radical left pro-palestine hide certain antisemitic prejudices. But it comes in my mind also the current situation of British Labour...

I think the best comparison for TTL Mussolini would be OTL's Churchill. There will be many people who cannot overlook his faults but the majority will look at the end result and justify his popularity accordingly.

 

[MusuMankata]

Mussolini will probably be treated like Mao in this timeline.

The thing is, ITTL, Mussolini was an objective net positive for Italy and hasn't (yet) engaged in poorly-coordinated economic manuvers that have killed thousands, or at least weren't overly positive. If he keeps up, his reputation may be closer to OTL Lee Kuan Yew's than to Mao's, even accounting for the brutality of his regime against Lybians and Slovenians.

 

[CalBear]

Fascist rethoric would always counter France and Britain made their own colonial massacres as well, the Slovenians started first, and the Serbians oppressed the Croats.

But sometimes I wonder if in more normal circumstances - other TLs where Italy would stay neutral and reject the racial laws - there would have been this cordial relation. Probably not because Mussolini was more pro Arab but also wonder how he could have related with one like Nasser.

Paradoxally a fascism not bound with nazism shouldn't have been prejudicially antisemite even in other divergences - at least in Italy. Considering also antisemitism post WWII was and is strong not only on the right but also on the left. Certain OTL Italian radical left pro-palestine hide certain antisemitic prejudices. But it comes in my mind also the current situation of British Labour...

You were doing so well, right up to the last sentence. Please do not drag current politics outside of Chat.

Thanks.