WI: Ottomans join napoleonic wars?

[Fortuna]

The question is the title, what are the effects, if any of the ottomans joining the napoleonic wars on the side of the french? Would it lead to a faster ottoman collapse or would they be able to cement France's hegemony and Selim can continue with his modernization of the empire?

 

[Grey Wolf]

How/When?

Do they concede Egypt/Palestine? And then agree an alliance?

This would screw over the British involved in trying to thwart this - while I doubt Nelson would let much happen to the fleet, the British landed to defend Acre would either be massacred or ransomed

 

[Fortuna]

How/When?

Do they concede Egypt/Palestine? And then agree an alliance?

This would screw over the British involved in trying to thwart this - while I doubt Nelson would let much happen to the fleet, the British landed to defend Acre would either be massacred or ransomed

well Id say the time frame would be between the French invasion of Egypt and the deposition of Selim III in 1807, How it would happen could be anything to me since the Ottomans naturally had good relations with the French and British but hated the Russians, so I could see them joining the French to fight the Russians. I dont know if they would have to concede Egypt and Palestine to the French but since Egypt was already semi-independent I dont see it being too hard to let go besides the prestige hit. The scenario I was thinking of was the war of the third coalition since its after the French failed in taking the Levant and so theyd probably be content in letting the ottomans keep it, while at the same time it provides another front for Russia and The Holy Roman Empire (Austria).

 

[Practical Lobster]

Yeah after the invasion, probably not happening. Now whether the Directory could somehow bring the Turks on their side through shrewd diplomacy is another question. And even if they could, it's an open question what benefit this would bring the French, who are currently preoccupied with smacking down all of Europe on and off.

 

[Mike Stearns]

Maybe the French convince the Turks to start a proxy war in India?

 

[alexmilman]

The question is the title, what are the effects, if any of the ottomans joining the napoleonic wars on the side of the french? Would it lead to a faster ottoman collapse or would they be able to cement France's hegemony and Selim can continue with his modernization of the empire?

There is no need for guessing because there was Russian-Ottoman War of 1806 - 1812 which was encouraged by the defeat of the 3rd coalition, started in parallel with the war of the 4th coalition (1806 - 1807) and ended just before Napoleon’s invasion of Russia.

 

[alexmilman]

Yeah after the invasion, probably not happening. Now whether the Directory could somehow bring the Turks on their side through shrewd diplomacy is another question. And even if they could, it's an open question what benefit this would bring the French, who are currently preoccupied with smacking down all of Europe on and off.

Actually, at the time of the Directory the Ottomans had been fighting against the French and it would be rather difficult to combine a shrewd diplomacy with landing on the Ottoman-controlled territories. Besides, the Ottomans were happy with a possibility to extend their grip on the Adriatic at the French expense (Russian-Ottoman capture of French-held Corfu and establishing a vassal Republic of the Seven Islands).

 

[Practical Lobster]

Actually, at the time of the Directory the Ottomans had been fighting against the French and it would be rather difficult to combine a shrewd diplomacy with landing on the Ottoman-controlled territories. Besides, the Ottomans were happy with a possibility to extend their grip on the Adriatic at the French expense (Russian-Ottoman capture of French-held Corfu and establishing a vassal Republic of the Seven Islands).

Directory started in 95, invasion was in 98...

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

The question is the title, what are the effects, if any of the ottomans joining the napoleonic wars on the side of the french? Would it lead to a faster ottoman collapse or would they be able to cement France's hegemony and Selim can continue with his modernization of the empire?

The Ottomans (indirectly) joined France by declaring war on Russia and facing the British.

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

Maybe the French convince the Turks to start a proxy war in India?

The Ottomans as of 1792 (peace with Russia) onwards had no capacity to fight in India. There is no Navy to challenge the EIC or an Army to send against the Marathas.

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

How/When?

Do they concede Egypt/Palestine? And then agree an alliance?

This would screw over the British involved in trying to thwart this - while I doubt Nelson would let much happen to the fleet, the British landed to defend Acre would either be massacred or ransomed

How: By declaring war against the enemies (?) of France (Russo-Turkish War 1806-1812)

When: 1806 (see above)

No, as that is no option to the Ottomans or viable for the French. Selim III agreeing to give such large territory would mean no resistance against a Janissary Coup anymore.

The British won't be in trouble. If Selim gave up Egypt at least, the French are still stuck. And the British can cut deals with the local Mamluks.

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

well Id say the time frame would be between the French invasion of Egypt and the deposition of Selim III in 1807, How it would happen could be anything to me since the Ottomans naturally had good relations with the French and British but hated the Russians, so I could see them joining the French to fight the Russians. I dont know if they would have to concede Egypt and Palestine to the French but since Egypt was already semi-independent I dont see it being too hard to let go besides the prestige hit. The scenario I was thinking of was the war of the third coalition since its after the French failed in taking the Levant and so theyd probably be content in letting the ottomans keep it, while at the same time it provides another front for Russia and The Holy Roman Empire (Austria).

The Russians and Ottomans were allies in the invasion of the Ionian Islands. The hate was to certain points.