In fact, Ma Hongkui, the ruler of Ningxia would probably defeat the "Khan of Khans" and still have time for his wifes, listening to some songs, and eating lots of ice cream!
Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg
- Thread starter RiverDelta
- Start date
My post-war KR headcanon.
Citizen Valois and Comrade Mosley won in France and Britain, promising to safeguard the revolution at home in the face of imperialist pressure. The Christian Socialists win in Italy, because the Italian people are more interested in feeding their families and getting the Pope to think communism is cool than fighting another shitty war. Germany and Austria-Hungary stay the course because of course they do. Russia goes Savinkov. Savinkov invades Central Asia without anyone caring. The Carlists win in Spain and form a Mediterranean Alliance with the Two Sicilies and Petain's France, who sees little reason to team up with an Entente that saw fit to take chunks of America and that looks like will have a major war in India soon. The Belgrade Pact beats the tar out of Bulgaria and Serbia installs a government loyal to them, while Greece and Romania take chunks away. Netherlands goes Batavian Commune.
The Showa Restoration happens in Japan and Australia goes PatAut. The Indochina revolt is successful. Insulindia never revolts. Siam invades Indochina after their revolt and annexes it, forming the Siamese Empire. The Princely States fall apart and the Raj and Bose's Bharatiya move in and sweep up the pieces. MA GANG defeats the madman in Mongolia and China falls into civil war once more. The Axis defeats the Ottomans and partition it. The Turkish Republic is declared and they hate everyone, but also everyone also makes sure the straits stay open.
In Mittelafrika, they go to war with Portugal and take the colonies. Goering is found out pretty fast after that and replaced with von Lettow-Vorbeck. Ethiopia wins against Somalia. In South Africa, the fifth or so Boer War goes about as well for the Boers as the previous wars, even without support from Britain.
Chile and Patagonia win over Argentina. Peru invades Ecuador, winning, but then falls to a syndicalist revolution which is hijacked by the Tupacarmarists, Totalists who want Native Rule and to bring back the Incan Empire as a socialist republic they call the Andean Popular Confederation. They invade Bolivia in order to export the revolution and unite what they see as one nation. In Brazil, Vargas takes over and swears to defend Brazil against the socialist threat.
In Mexico the Zapatistas continue the revolution southwards when America falls into civil war. They invade Central America in support of the socialist revolutionaries there and Nicaragua's struggle for unification. In America the CSA win, but with the Hawai'i seized by Japan, Alaska seized by Canada, and New England and the Pacific States both allying themselves with Canada and the Entente.
WK2 is triggered by the French invading Germany and the Belgian Uprising. When the war starts, Russia demands the Caucasus and Belarus and receives it. Japan demands Germany's remaining Asian colonies and is denied, triggering war in the East and a general Japanese invasion of China. The CSA demands the return of rightful American territory and triggers strikes in Seattle, San Francisco, and Boston. Canada refuses and the breakaway republics break the strikes with their militaries. The CSA invades, triggering war between them and the Entente. Bharatiya invades the Raj when they hear there won't be any help coming. The Belgrade Pact, seeing the instability of Austria-Hungary, starts making demands for plebiscites of areas with significant South Slavic and Romanian populations, supervised by the Belgrade Pact. Serbia lists ten demands on their ultimatum, in an act of deliberate allusion towards the ultimatum that started the first Weltkreig. Austria-Hungary says no and the 4th Balkan War begins.
The war in Europe drags on. The CSA crushes Canada, and Edward flees to the Caribbean, which is the current battlefield between the Royal Navy and the People's Liberation Navy. Edward is couped mid-flight by his own guard, who arrest him and declare his stuttering brother king. When they land in Kingston, where King George immediately tries to sue for peace by hijacking the only radio tower in Jamaica and sending out messengers to Miami. America agrees to end the war immediately with only Canada and the American territories annexed, as long as the Royal Navy is secured for America. Most Canadian commanders disregard orders and scuttle their ships after steaming into port. King George remains King of the Caribbean and Australia in right, and much more in name.
Queen Wilhemina of the Netherlands, first forced to flee the revolution at home, is now forced to flee the Japanese invasion. She barely manages to make the voyage back to Europe, where she narrowly avoids French submarines in the Mediterranean. She chills out in Spain, one of the few countries in Europe not at war right now. That changes as the Mediterranean Alliance declares war on the Internationale. Two Sicilies intends to reunite Italy while Austria isn't looking, Petain wants to go home, and the Carlists don't want France to defeat Germany.
In South America, the Andean Popular Confederation defeats Bolivia and is in no mood to slow down. They start placing troops on the Paraguayan border and start sending money and guns to anyone willing to rebel against the Paraguayan government. Eventually war breaks out, triggering the Great South American War, between the APC, Chile, and Argentina, and Paraguay and Brazil.
The war starts turning in Germany's favor. Then Savinkov attacks. No warning or explanation, just the troops built up on the border, then crossed it. Things are looking shitty for Germany as Russia rolls through Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltics, but the Italian Socialist Republic falls quite fast, with most of its army fighting from Baden to Bremen. France can hold the Pyrenees fairly easily, but the loss of Italian factories and manpower is pretty jarring, not to mention the invasion starting across the Alps and by Nice. Germany is forced out of East Asia at the same time, with Singapore falling. The Ostasian Flotte is n docked in Colombo, Sri Lanka, and fears trying to force the Straits of Malacca, and they have no marines to spare taking Sumatra first.
America demands the return of Hawai'i from Japan's unjustified annexation. Japan says lolno. Turns out that most of the US Navy and around a third of the Canadian Navy were docked in San Diego, and the largest naval aviation sortie in history hit the Japanese Fleet in Pearl Harbor, with torpedo bombers taking off of flight decks before the Japanese response was even received. Instead of being a knockout blow that intimidated the Japanese Paper Tiger into giving up the islands, an emboldened Japan, flush from its great victories over Germany and in China, decided to turn around and fight.
France was falling. The Germans were at the gates of Paris. The British Expeditionary Force had been slowly deployed to coastal positions. Maybe they could hold Normandy for long enough that the Russians could collapse the German war machine. They were only a day or two from Berlin, everyone said. America had started sending steel and ammo, even some planes, but it wasn't enough. There just weren't enough men. Only around five American divisions were fighting-ready in Europe, and they were supposed to be "volunteers." America didn't even declare war on the Reichspakt or the Mediterranean Allies. They claimed it was because of the stresses of a two-front war, but then why did they start the war with Japan in the first place? Did they really hate Totalists so much? Was one small position on race by Valois really that bad?
After the Fall of France, America ended up negotiating the Second Peace With Honour and the Reichpakt and Mediterranean Alliance formalized their partnership in Brussels. The Brussels Pact was negotiated primarily as an agreement between France and Germany. France would regain the territory of the Commune, while Germany and France would be in an alliance, and the two countries would cooperate on planning regarding coal and iron, with a common trade zone to possibly be negotiated later. Also the Reichspakt and the Mediterranean Alliance would be dissolved and the member states would be part of a new multi-party mutual defense agree named the Brussels Pact.
In England, Mosley had pledged to fight on. But Big Brother ended up on the wrong side of one of the very Political Correctness courts he himself set up, and Eric Blair, who saw Britain's future lied with America, replaced him.. The Hague Accords were negotiated under truce, while the entire time, the Russians were barely kept out of Berlin. The Internationale would recognize the Italian Empire and the Third Republic. Flanders and part of Wallonia would be transferred to the Kingdom of the Netherlands and Germany would directly annex Wallonia up to the Meuse. The Brussels Pact would recognize the governments of the Union of Britain and the Combined Syndicates, along with other allied syndicalist and socialist states such as Mexico, Bharatiya, and Central America. In exchange, the two sides would cooperate in their war against the genocidal powers, tacitly allied since the turnover of Transamur, of Russia and Japan.
Also at the Hague they decided that there should be a place where all powers of the world should be able to meet at any time and discuss their problems. This was called the United Nations Conference. It was to be a permanent structure in the Hague where diplomats from all over the world could meet. Like the Congress of Vienna, except all the time. It could also be a bureaucracy that oversees Interpol, the Red Cross, and other international cooperation groups.
In Bharatiya, the Burma Road, which had been the route for American aid into China, was expanded greatly to accommodate German aid. The Republican Navy escorted convoys of German supplies to aid in the retaking of Malaya. Germany was sent food aid from America. And the Kaiserliche Marine was able to steam against the Imperial Japanese Navy without worrying about exposing Mittleafrika and the Atlantic coast. The People's Liberation Navy sailed through the Panama Canal. PLN Marines landed in Hawai'i. Then in Samoa. Then in Guadalcanal. Then in Guam. The People's Liberation Army was sending whole divisions through the Burma Road in an attempt to save the Chinese. By now there was only one faction worth supporting. The Ma Clique. With the fall of the coastal areas, the warlords in those areas were gone. The Qing Emperor had actually fled inland to Ma protection in Chongqing. The Ma had teamed up with the KMT after the fall of their republic to Qing and Japanese pressure, so aid going to the republicans was really going to the Ma.
The war in Europe was going far better now that the Germans only had one front. In a turnabout from the last war, the Heer turned from defeated France to finish off the Russian State. It was a constant offensive by the well-trained and well equipped German cream of the crop that pushed back Savinkov's army even faster than it had invaded. Of course, once the army started getting into Russian territory, the fighting got much harder. The German people and army were tired. It was a long war. But Russia had to be defeated.
The Americans landed on Kyushu as the Ma, with Germano-American aid, pushed the Japanese out of Shanghai. Only four weeks later, the Germans dropped the first nuclear bomb, Clausewitz, on Nizhny Novgorod, the city that produced the majority of Russia's tanks. In response, the State Council of Russia, led by the Patriarch Pyotr, deposed Savinkov and surrendered unconditionally. Japan was not as lucky, as the Emperor refused to surrender, or so it was reported by his deputies and War Council. Millions of Japanese died in the firebombings of Japan that preceded invasion. The American toehold on Kyushu was expanded bit by bit with thousands of tons of German, British, and American naval shells and air-dropped bombs. Eventually Japan was in such disarray, that when American forces landed in Kanto, the Emperor and Supreme Council for the Direction of War were nowhere to be found. Many say that when confronted with the prospect of being captured by syndicalists who would almost certainly hold them responsible for the crimes committed in China, they commited collective seppuku and had their bodies destroyed. It's an almost likely story, but there should have been at least some survivors who could tell the tale. Those who should know, the families of those involved, have remained tight-lipped. Eventually American marines found Prince Chichibu, Hirohito's brother, in a hunting lodge outside of Tokyo. Using his authority as acting Emperor, the United Nations signed a peace treaty with Japan and called all Japanese forces to stand down.
After the war, Japan, Russia, Turkestan, and Korea were set up as liberal republics, meant to be neutral between all the powers. Funnily enough, Japan ended up going syndicalist in a totally fair election, and Russia ended up with the conservatives winning in a totally also fair election. Japan ended up joining the International in 1955. Russia, however, only joined Mitteleuropa, the German economic union, not the Brussels Pact. Russians don't trust like that. Korea and Turkestan actually have remained neutral, although leaning strongly to what eventually ended up its own power, Hui Dynasty China under Ma Jiyuan, the Tiānzuò Emperor and Caliph. Insulindia ended up being an federal monarchy under Wilhelmina, with Wilhelmina II giving her coronation oath with one hand on the Bible and another on the Quran. Austria-Hungary was dismantled by the Belgrade Pact, with Serbia declaring the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and Austria petitioning for annexation by Germany.
The Carlist heir Hugo Carlos actually ended up being a syndicalist himself, and pulled out of the Brussels Pact when he became king. He turned Spain into an interesting mix of monarchism and syndicalist democracy. Petain eventually died and when he did, France nearly exploded. But the transition ended up smoothly going to the SFIO, who promised a return of the Commune employment and housing guarantee, but no dismantling of the French Empire in Africa. Brazil lost the war, but just barely. Vargas stepped down and new elections were held. Interestingly every major candidate that advocated joining the Brussels Pact ended up carbombed, shot in the head, or mysteriously disappeared. Investigators say the smell of hamburgers was detected at each event. Egypt ended up going Syndicalist and lost Sudan. They have nukes and are crazy. The Internationale doesn't want them.
Bharatiya eventually reformed to Orthodox Syndicalism, which primarily means American unions can expand into India. Eritrea gains its independence then gets annexed by Ethiopia. The Kaiser appoints the first black Vizekonig of Afrika Barack II von Obama in 2012. Siam gets into a war with China over Vietnam, technically wins, then reforms into a union of four kingdoms each with their own devolved parliament. The Labour Party almost wins in South Africa, causing the Boers to rise up again. This time it's real bad, as blacks and coloureds rise up too. Mittelafrika gets involved, which means America and India get involved and what happens is new racially equal South African Republic rises up, with Northern Rhodesia being renamed Zimbabwe and both Natal and Zimbabwe getting autonomy.
There ended up being a United Nations intervention in Romania, the only one after the first, which was the Japanese-Russian situation. The genocide of Jews, Roma, Hungarians, and Germans in Romania was getting out of hand, with Hungary pleading to the United Nations to save the poor peoples of Romania from the Iron Guard. Yugoslavia ended up supplying most the troops. The Belgrade pact was dead in the water, but Yugoslavia stood proud and triumphant as king of the Balkans after so much pain.
The Dominican Republic and Haiti were both annexed by the CSA after elections in those countries resulted in syndicalists winning and petitioning for annexation.
Queen Elizabeth is Queen of the Caribbean and nothing else. She gave that up upon her ascension. She's a beloved figure, widely seen as the only reason the Caribbean Federation even still exists. Australasia became a republic and democratized after the war. It's still a very authoritarian country, but only in Australia. New Zealand threatened to secede if not given appropriate autonomy. Australasia is now known for its "One Country, Two Systems" policy regarding voting rights, race laws, and whatnot.
Rashidi Arabia, also known as the United Arab Emirates, is a country constantly falling apart, but it never quite manages it. There's always some kind of rebellion, whether it's Kurds in the north, Wahhabis in the Nejd, or just some emir getting too big for his britches, the Arabian Army always stays in practice. This is good, since Egypt is intent on spreading revolution to all Arabs. And only Arabs.
EDIT: If you search my posts in the Photos of the Kaiserreich thread you can find a lot of posts about my Second Peace With Honour TL. https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/search/56533660
That's one impessive map. Vive la Revolucion!
Does anybody know when the new version of KR comes along? I'm getting sick of these updates breaking my saves.
A teaser for that Wang-ker:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kaiserreich/comments/bynvho/kmt_teaser_welcome_back_chairman_wang/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kaiserreich/comments/bynvho/kmt_teaser_welcome_back_chairman_wang/
So much later, feeling quite stupid, I realised a possible explanation for why Liangguang only has one path that leads to genuine democracy in China, despite that explanation really being apparent when the Liangguang PR was posted: Chen Mingshu's path doesn't lead to it not because it isn't genuinely democratic, but because he is part of the Left-KMT, so it will be the actual KMT tag, the one in JiangFu, whose paths (quite likely with the options influenced by things like KMT paths in other tags) decides how genuinely democratic Left-KMT (or if a Left-Right reconciliation happens, as the Minquan Moderates description seems to suggest is possible, KMT) Chinese unification becomes.
Yeah, I'm guessing that southwestern China (Hunnan, Yunnan, Liangguang, JiangFu, maybe Sichuan) will work similar to Central America and at some point if all of them are ruled by either federalists, Left-KMT or Right-KMT, they will just merge voluntarily under the Liangguang, Kuomingtang or Yunnan tag, respectively. Or if the SocLib compromise happens between both KMTs.
My current guesses for genuine democracies are Chen's Federalists, Soong's SocDem KMT and the compromise KMT.
I suspect one of those may be a trap of sorts, possibly the Compromise KMT, given that there were "one of like two genuine democratic paths". I could be wrong here though.
May be. We don't know after all and I certainly wouldn't put it past the KR team not to do something like that.
The wording of "like two genouine democratic paths" is uncertain though. The dev who used it might not know for sure, so I guess there might be let's 2-4 genuinely democratic paths.
Does anyone have a guess if Fengtian might lead to something like that? I honestly don't know.
I think Fengtian can't lead to that as Fengtian. Possibly the Japanese have an option to coup the marshal in favour of underground democratic movement? Personally though I think its unlikely.
Chen's Federalists seem very likely to be a possible path to genuine democracy in China - the other Liangguang paths seem iffier or too much set to lead into another tag. We know that so for as the Liangguang dev knew none of the PRs before Liangguang had a path to it, so that means the LEP rump, Yunnan, the Qing/Zhili and Shandong most likely do not have such paths. When it comes to the KMT... I think it might depend on how, and to what degree, KR wants to play with expectations. Given the dev comments on how the CoopRev Minquan will "still execute you if they think you're a Hanjian.", shortly followed by ""Think" is the key word in my above comment though.", and how we know the CoopRevs have poor relations with other democratic-desiring movements, they seem a more obvious candidate for good intentions going bad, their paranoia perhaps leading them to cracking down too broadly during the tutelage period for there to be a functional opposition willing and able to operate within the system by the end (which you kinda need for a genuine democracy). Compromise KMT has advantages there in that its leadership has more non-KMT ties and by its nature it needs to, well, compromise more with liberal Chinese movements... but of course, specifically because it looks that way the KR devs might make Compromise KMT a trap and CoopRev work out in the end.
The Yunnan Dev said in the KR Discord says that Zhu Peide (the Right KMT guy in Yunnan) is aligned politically with Sun Fo, so Zhu Peide triumphing over Li Zongren for Right KMT leadership and Sun Fo taking over the Left KMT would probably be how the two KMTs reconcile.
Going back to the Yunnan progress report, I noticed that there was a dev comment that mentioned Zhu Peide's political alignment with Sun Fo, but IIRC at the time it hadn't been made clear Sun Fo was with the Left KMT, just suggested he was classified as SocLib and was KMT, and it was four months ago, so it is good to have confirmation that plans haven't changed there.
Vince
Monthly Donor
Fengtian has a disabled Democratic path right now in its Focus Tree but who knows if that's still valid as it's been there forever. I'm assuming a Fengtian update would be one of the last ones before the China update is released so we probably won't see it for awhile.
Hey guys, the Krasnacht dev answered some of my questions on how come the Canadians had a revolution there. Your thoughts?
In 1925, when the British exiles conduct a mass exodus to Canada, the Canadian government is essentially couped and the political system is shattered. This means that Canadian democracy (which wasn't very democratic in the first place) is actually gotten rid of, except in a limited, formal sense. The other thing is that the British Empire logically experiences a total economic collapse. Britain is lost, two thirds of India is lost, the colonies in Africa and Asia are almost entirely lost. The London Stock Exchange, one of the most important stock exchanges in the world, is gone. Realistically there should be a worldwide depression from this point, and Germany would isolate itself from the effects as much as possible by implementing protectionist policies and effectively looting its colonies in Eastern Europe, Africa, and Asia. The rest of the world should be experiencing a depression worse than the Great Depression of OTL -- and the remainder of the British Empire would be the hardest hit. KR does not represent this due to unknown reasons, but since Krasnacht takes certain steps to rationalise the KR lore, we are operating under the assumption that the Canadian economy is really, really awful. There is a food shortage, a housing shortage, and an overabundance of labour. To deal with the exile problem, the government would allow exiles to purchase large tracts of farmland for cheap, and they would begin to push out the smaller, poorer farmers who were previously there (see the law of the centralisation of capital). A significant amount of Canadian industry was already British-owned before 1925; this share would only increase, as exiles buy up capital from American and Canadian capitalists. This would lead to a profound sense of oppression, and a high level of poverty and starvation among the Canadian working class. Homelessness, famine, labour camps, all these would afflict the working class. Support for socialism could only increase under these conditions.
When the American Revolution kicks off, the Canadian government decides to militarily intervene. This causes a backlash by the Canadian working class, which leads to a total breakdown of bourgeois civil society and the beginning of a civil war, in which Red American troops support the Canadian revolutionaries. With the socialists having mass support from workers and poor farmers, it doesn't take long for the counterrevolution to be smashed.
"
She also answered my question on how the CoF avoids the USSR's economic problems, your thoughts?
The reason the USSR had issues with pollution, famine, etc. was because the economy wasn't planned enough, i.e. administrative incompetence and unaccountable bureaucrats. The Ukrainian famine was caused by a combination of drought and administrative incompetence. I recommend Hillel Ticktin and Donald Filtzer if you're interested in reading more about Soviet economic planning.
Tickin's thesis is that the USSR didn't actually have a true planned economy (i.e. it didn't operate according to the law of value or the law of planning, but in fact operated according to no coherent economic law of motion), because it didn't have a democratic feedback mechanism that allowed bureaucrats to make adjustments based on actual need. France in KN does not have this issue, because there are multiple democratic feedback mechanisms to help state planners. An example of economic planning from OTL that did include a democratic feedback mechanism was Allende's Chile, with Cybersyn (which still had issues, don't get me wrong, but these issues were somewhat different from those of the Soviet system).
In 1925, when the British exiles conduct a mass exodus to Canada, the Canadian government is essentially couped and the political system is shattered. This means that Canadian democracy (which wasn't very democratic in the first place) is actually gotten rid of, except in a limited, formal sense. The other thing is that the British Empire logically experiences a total economic collapse. Britain is lost, two thirds of India is lost, the colonies in Africa and Asia are almost entirely lost. The London Stock Exchange, one of the most important stock exchanges in the world, is gone. Realistically there should be a worldwide depression from this point, and Germany would isolate itself from the effects as much as possible by implementing protectionist policies and effectively looting its colonies in Eastern Europe, Africa, and Asia. The rest of the world should be experiencing a depression worse than the Great Depression of OTL -- and the remainder of the British Empire would be the hardest hit. KR does not represent this due to unknown reasons, but since Krasnacht takes certain steps to rationalise the KR lore, we are operating under the assumption that the Canadian economy is really, really awful. There is a food shortage, a housing shortage, and an overabundance of labour. To deal with the exile problem, the government would allow exiles to purchase large tracts of farmland for cheap, and they would begin to push out the smaller, poorer farmers who were previously there (see the law of the centralisation of capital). A significant amount of Canadian industry was already British-owned before 1925; this share would only increase, as exiles buy up capital from American and Canadian capitalists. This would lead to a profound sense of oppression, and a high level of poverty and starvation among the Canadian working class. Homelessness, famine, labour camps, all these would afflict the working class. Support for socialism could only increase under these conditions.
When the American Revolution kicks off, the Canadian government decides to militarily intervene. This causes a backlash by the Canadian working class, which leads to a total breakdown of bourgeois civil society and the beginning of a civil war, in which Red American troops support the Canadian revolutionaries. With the socialists having mass support from workers and poor farmers, it doesn't take long for the counterrevolution to be smashed.
"
She also answered my question on how the CoF avoids the USSR's economic problems, your thoughts?
The reason the USSR had issues with pollution, famine, etc. was because the economy wasn't planned enough, i.e. administrative incompetence and unaccountable bureaucrats. The Ukrainian famine was caused by a combination of drought and administrative incompetence. I recommend Hillel Ticktin and Donald Filtzer if you're interested in reading more about Soviet economic planning.
Tickin's thesis is that the USSR didn't actually have a true planned economy (i.e. it didn't operate according to the law of value or the law of planning, but in fact operated according to no coherent economic law of motion), because it didn't have a democratic feedback mechanism that allowed bureaucrats to make adjustments based on actual need. France in KN does not have this issue, because there are multiple democratic feedback mechanisms to help state planners. An example of economic planning from OTL that did include a democratic feedback mechanism was Allende's Chile, with Cybersyn (which still had issues, don't get me wrong, but these issues were somewhat different from those of the Soviet system).
This actually makes a lot of sense. KR's '20s probably were a lot less pleasant than OTL's.
Not - really they just replace the senate with the house of lords. Does not seem undemocratci to me
