The Footprint of Mussolini - TL

[MusuMankata]

Very interesting chapter, looks like the First Arabian War has been a veryresounding success for Israel... and a major cause of grieffor News in other parte of the Middle East.

Also, given that Pius XII is already visiting Israel, I wonder if ITTL the Pro Judeis (the Latin prayer done during Good Friday Mass) would be modified to remove the "perfidious Jews" part earlier than OTL.

 

[RyuDrago]

Also, given that Pius XII is already visiting Israel, I wonder if ITTL the Pro Judeis (the Latin prayer done during Good Friday Mass) would be modified to remove the "perfidious Jews" part earlier than OTL.

Seems so. I won't think Pius will change very much than OTL - considering he was literally the "last Prince of the Church". Would be interesting to see who will become the next Pope TTL.

 

[Sorairo]

Sorairo, I wish to ask: Beria felt due simply of Stalin's insanity (suddenly seeing him as a traitor and such) or someone plotted against him to cause his ruin, framing him in front of their leader?

As was typical of Stalin, merely the dictator’s madness.

 

[Bookmark1995]

The horseshoe theory, anyone?

Both the Soviet State and Nazi Germany were nations built around the whims of their respective rulers, engaged in ethnic cleansing (although ethnic cleansing has a precedent in Russian tsarist history), conquered and mistreated their satellite nations, rewarded people for the willingness to commit atrocities, and caused mass starvation in Eastern Europe.

Good ol' Uncle Joe once called Beria "Our Himmler"-although in many respects, Beria is more explicitly wretched of a person- so I doubt he would not have been a major SS person if had been living in Germany.​

 

[Drizzt]

The Turks are definitely on the rise (they were the RA country which annexed and by far margin the largest share of occupied territories), as long the axis between Italy and Israel will stand the Arabs won't have chances. In the meanwhile, Syria is rooting as its usual and so the Kurds.

In way the Turkish success here is the best thing that could have happened to Israel. With the annexation of the Syrian Coast line they are now "in for a pound" in regards to their Alliance with Israel against the Arabs. No future Erdogan-type will be able to turn against Israel and mend fences with the Arabs without returning the territory and that's something their nationalist base would overthrow them for.
Also the economic damage to Syria will weaken it's military. The old "flesh and blood can't overcome steel" rule probably showing itself in the 2nd War. Israel might loose a war in the future, but it wont be against human-wave assaults no matter how fanatic. And heavy equipment costs money, lots of it.

 

[Sorairo]

That Pious XII would arrive to visit Jerusalem (not only going out the Vatican but also travel so far aboard) and starting already to review anti-Jew criticism in the Church is definitely revolutionary given the character.

Two main push factors:

1) The Italian government is lobbying hard to get the Vatican onside with its political objectives.

2) Israel is offering serious administrative powers to once inaccessible sites in the Holiest location on Earth for Christians. The prestige the Church would gain would be significant. And all this just by recognising Israel and a few PR bits? It’s a pretty good deal.

 

[President Earl Warren]

1) The Italian government is lobbying hard to get the Vatican onside with its political objectives.

Is their any major pushback to this?

 

[Sorairo]

Is their any major pushback to this?

More behind closed doors so the public doesn’t mind. The Priests can’t exactly complain too loudly either. Ultimately, many Bishops are in ecstasy of the one true Holy Roman Catholic Apostolic Church having significant control in Jerusalem. Ultimately, the Church has been silent on many issues for nothing but their own interest. This is just another on the list.

 

[President Earl Warren]

More behind closed doors so the public doesn’t mind. The Priests can’t exactly complain too loudly either. Ultimately, many Bishops are in ecstasy of the one true Holy Roman Catholic Apostolic Church having significant control in Jerusalem. Ultimately, the Church has been silent on many issues for nothing but their own interest. This is just another on the list.

I think you misunderstood what I asked, the question was their any push back aganst Italian attempts to influence the Church, not pecifically the Isreal deal

 

[Sorairo]

I think you misunderstood what I asked, the question was their any push back aganst Italian attempts to influence the Church, not pecifically the Isreal deal

Ah, my apologies. It’s not appreciated but since they ultimately are united against Communism they find too much in common to have serious conflict.

 

[President Earl Warren]

Ah, my apologies. It’s not appreciated but since they ultimately are united against Communism they find too much in common to have serious conflict.

Okay,Im going to guess this will get abit more akward when Communism recedes as a threat and the Colonial wars begin...

 

[Alpha-King98760]

Jesus Christ!!! What an update!! Sad to see what’s going on the Middle East and the USSR.

Was surprised with Beria’s sudden execution.

 

[Bookmark1995]

Jesus Christ!!! What an update!! Sad to see what’s going on the Middle East and the USSR.

Was surprised with Beria’s sudden execution.

Really? You're surprised?

Stalin drove his wife to suicide, murdered his in-laws, and sent his daughter's boyfriend to the Gulag.

Almost no one was safe in Stalin's world.

 

[Alpha-King98760]

Really? You're surprised?

Stalin drove his wife to suicide, murdered his in-laws, and sent his daughter's boyfriend to the Gulag.

Almost no one was safe in Stalin's world.

True. I guess what I meant to say was was that I’m surprised it happened when it did.

 

[Sphenodon]

Sudden thought - did Mussolini ever go about obtaining the Sword of Islam in this timeline? If so, how has that role impacted him in mediating the religious conflicts between Islam and Judaism going on here at present?

 

[Sorairo]

Sudden thought - did Mussolini ever go about obtaining the Sword of Islam in this timeline? If so, how has that role impacted him in mediating the religious conflicts between Islam and Judaism going on here at present?

There is no Anti-Muslim propaganda from the Italians; there is a LOT of Anti-Arab propaganda. Libyan Arabs are taught they are Pheocenians and descendants of Rome. As it gets them rights equal to the Colonists, a lot of Libyan Arabs have taken to the idea.

 

[Mr.Doctor]

So great! Could we get a current world map?

 

[Alpha-King98760]

I wonder how science fiction of the 1950s will turn out ITTL?

 

[Arlos]

I wonder how science fiction of the 1950s will turn out ITTL?

I think to many people will still be mobilized for war in the 50s for SF to take off just yet
The world still isn’t out of the wood.

 

[MusuMankata]

I wonder how science fiction of the 1950s will turn out ITTL?

For one, there may be the chance for the birth of Italian sci-fi. While we're used to think Italian cinema as "dramatic comedies" or outright heavy movies (see: Rome Open City; Bycycle Thieves), we must remember that they're the product of Italy losing WW2 and, by extensions, a general feeling of defeat in the populance at large. With Fascism being successful, a won war and a feeling that Italy is important (whether again or at last depends on who you ask), there's a good chance that there would a director filming movies where the values of Fascism are projected in the future- or, in a less politically-charged moment, at lest Italian values.

The US' film industry, if it survives the utter storm the Wallace administration left behind, could probably be bolder in its anti-Communistic messages: I can see the original The Body Snatchers outright mentioning that the mayor (or evne the state governor/the president) have been replaced by the aliens already.