I was thinking that it would better for a restored Israel if the founder of the neo-David dynasty was a daughter of the Exilarch named Miriam (as a woman, she couldn’t claim to the Messiah thus not alienating the various Jewish and Christian sects. This fact will be important has it will allow the new regime to sidestep the religious land mines). As the revived state stands a good chance to gain control over all of the Levant and to show itself as independent of both Kemet and the East Romans, our Miriam could refer to herself as Malkat Gadol or “Great Queen”. There will be of course some pushback from Kemet and the East Romans as they will try to undermine the new regime.
Collaborative timeline: Dunes of the Desert, a Timeline without Islam
- Thread starter Tomislav Addai
- Start date
I was thinking that it would better for a restored Israel if the founder of the neo-David dynasty was a daughter of the Exilarch named Miriam (as a woman, she couldn’t claim to the Messiah thus not alienating the various Jewish and Christian sects. This fact will be important has it will allow the new regime to sidestep the religious land mines). As the revived state stands a good chance to gain control over all of the Levant and to show itself as independent of both Kemet and the East Romans, our Miriam could refer to herself as Malkat Gadol or “Great Queen”. There will be of course some pushback from Kemet and the East Romans as they will try to undermine the new regime.
I can see the Samaritans, Jews and Ebionites work together, should they not adopt a theocratic administration. However, the Miaphysites (Syriac Orthodox) and Melkites (Greek Orthodox/Chalcedonian) would very well be opposed to such a regime: the Miaphysites could be labeled as Ghassanid loyalists, or in the southern regions, siding with Kemet. The Melkites, per definition, would somehow support restoration of Rhomaic rule.
Nevertheless, the Phoenician city states would seek a disintegration of the Levant, to secure their independence
If Miriam adopts a policy a benign neglect towards religion (“If you’re loyal to the kingdom, then I don’t care what your faith is,”), the Miaphysites can be bought onside (a tolerant non theocratic Israel is a more preferable option for them than Rhomaic rule). The Melkites however will be a in more difficult position. They speak a different language (Miriam will want to restore Hebrew as the language of administration, although it will take a generation or so to take off) and are seen as a potential fifth column (they want the restoration of Rhomaic rule over the Levant). Miriam will need to suppress a revolt or two by them in order to both demonstrate her power and to dissuade the Rhomaics from meddling in Israel’s affairs. The Phoenician city-states will want to keep their independence, however if faced with the twin hammers of the Rhomaics and Miriam, they’ll choose the lesser evil of Miriam as at least they’ll have some control over their internal affairs.
The individual forms of government are explained in Overview: Civilization and Society; with following colours:
- tribal=brown
- horde/nomad= yellow
- feudal= blue
- imperial=purple
- repulbic=pink
- theocracy=white
- eranshahr=orange
- caste=violet
- monastic feudal= salmon
- celestial mandate/Chinese imperial=green
- beige= hierocracy
green in Canaries: supposed to be tribal (brown)
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Overview: Language families in 800AD
Note1: colours taken from Linguistic map thread; if absent used DCS scheme. India not detailed, due to being outside of our scope, as well as Tibet
Note2: Corrected minor errors in Forms of government map. Sogdia is a republic , not a horde.
Overview: Lingua Francas in 800AD
red: Latin
purple: Koiné Greek (note: Bactria uses its own variant of Greek)
blue: Syriac (Aramaic)
other blue: Persian
gold: Sogdian
green/gold: Arabic
yellow: Geez
green: Gaelic
violet: Sanskrit
orangered: Tamil
grey-blue: Coptic and Greek
red: Armenian
pale blue. Georgian
Overview: Judaism
The Abrahamic family of religions includes four major branches by the year 800: Judaism, Rahmanism, Christianity and Gnosticism.
As for Judaism itself, there appears to be a diversity of movements within it, which were present by the end of the 8th century. Some of these are difficult to classify, such as Hellenistic Judaism, which, by most part was subsumed by Christianity, or the Hayhanot, a form of Judaic religion practiced by the Beta Israel community in Semien.
The majority of Jewish populations, however belonged to the Rabbinical Judaism. They could have been found throughout the extent of the Roman Empire, differing by their geographic, and by now, also cultural affiliation into Ashkenazi (Francia), Sephardi (Hispania), Italkim (Italy), Romaniot (Rhomaic Empire), Mizraim (Egypt) and Bavlin (Mesopotamia). Furthermore, there were some Jewish tribes in Arabia as well (mostly in Hejaz, but also in Najd). A small community aslo exists in the ancestral lands (1)
Rabbinnical Judaism emerged after the destruction of the Second Temple, and most of its practices could be traced to Pharisees: a definite separation with Christianity occured at the Council of Jamnia.
Ideally, the religious head of the Jews would be the Sanhedrin and the High Priest. In the southern Levant, the institution of the Sanhedrin was revived by the Banu Judham, yet its influence was restricted only to religious affaris. Its chief was known as nasi. The authority of the Sanhedrin was extended to encompass the entirety of the Ghassanid kingdom after their conquest of Jerusalem, and also by extension it became a chief authority for the Jewish tribes of desert Arabia.
Politically, and institutionally, the Jewry of Mesopotamia was answering to the Exilarch, who would reside in Nehardea. The Jews who lived outside the Levant and Mesopotoamia would depend onj their rabbis to interpret the Torah.
The Jews of Yemen, were, however of the Saduccee denomination.
Significant is also the Jewish settlement of Khazaria. However, it remains unknown whether there existed a structured hierarchy and organized religious life in the khaganate.
The origins of the Karaite community are unknown: it may be possible, that they have already been present in Mesopotamia by this period.
Autocephaly map of Rabbinical Judaism. Blue areas have no centralised authority
Chapter 26 : The Holy Land
The region of known to the Greeks as Philistia, and to Jews as Judea or Israel has a great historical significance to almost every monotheistic religion (with an exception of Rahmanism), for it contains the cities of Jerusalem, Safed and Tiberias important to the Jews, Mount Gerizim key to the Samaritans and Bethlehem, Nazareth and Jerusalem with great religious importance to the Christians.
As mentioned previously, the area has been ruled by various Arab dynasties since the 7th century, were it the Ghatafanids,Banu Judham and ultimately most recently tgey have been subjugated by the Ghassanids.
The Ghassanid state was however in decay, and by 817 AD, a major rebellion has begun in the mountainous areas of northern Judea and southern Samaria. The Jews viewed this time as a good opportunity to reassert their independence; and they were led by a charismatic figure called Miriam, who was the daughter of the Jewish Exilarch (religious head of Judaism in Mesopotamia).
While supported by many rabbis, who at these times would often read from the Maccabbees or the Judges and inspire their cobelievers to take up arms, Miriam would be careful to not assume the role of a Messiah, as to not generate antipathy from the Christians.
While the Jewish revolt was quick in attracting Jews, for its duration it became key to gain support of the Samaritans. Tge Samaritans, after joining, quickly took control over Sikhem and Bethshan, and most of Samaria itself.
Soon, also the mountainous areas south of Jerusalem came under the control of the rebels, taking over Hebron.
Only Nabatea, Galilee, and coastal areas remain outside of rebel control, aa well as the city of Jerusalem and town of Bethlehem
By spring 818, many Christians have fled northwards or westwards, to areas outside of rebel control. While Ghatafanid armies have crossed the Jordan army and restored control in some of the towns on the West Bank, they failed to restore order in the hinterlands. After having lost a few battles, the rebels would retreat to mountain forts and refuges, and switch to guerrilla tactics.
In may, the city-state of Acre seized the opportunity and assumed control over the Yezreel Valley and the Galilee. They were welcomed by local Christians, whether they be Chalcedonian or to a lesser extent Miaphysite.
Despite their religious differences, tge Phoenician city states have supported the Jewish rebels, seeing a political fragmentation of the Levant. Egypt as well used the opportunity to conquer the coastal strip north of Gaza until Mount Carmel.
The Egyptian king soon pressed both parties to cease hostilities. Ultimately, he managed to effectively vassalize the Kingdom of Israel , and assuming the title of Advocate of the Christians in Israel. However, except Ebionites there were few Christians in the realm outside Jerusalem and Bethlehem.
The Sanheddron as an institution assumed a more important role in the society. Many Jews from Arabia Petrea and Egypt would return to Israel and boost the Jewish segment of the society.
Relations with the Samaritans remained stable throughout the first half of the ninth century, and Samaritans enjoyed internal autonomy.
As mentioned previously, the area has been ruled by various Arab dynasties since the 7th century, were it the Ghatafanids,Banu Judham and ultimately most recently tgey have been subjugated by the Ghassanids.
The Ghassanid state was however in decay, and by 817 AD, a major rebellion has begun in the mountainous areas of northern Judea and southern Samaria. The Jews viewed this time as a good opportunity to reassert their independence; and they were led by a charismatic figure called Miriam, who was the daughter of the Jewish Exilarch (religious head of Judaism in Mesopotamia).
While supported by many rabbis, who at these times would often read from the Maccabbees or the Judges and inspire their cobelievers to take up arms, Miriam would be careful to not assume the role of a Messiah, as to not generate antipathy from the Christians.
While the Jewish revolt was quick in attracting Jews, for its duration it became key to gain support of the Samaritans. Tge Samaritans, after joining, quickly took control over Sikhem and Bethshan, and most of Samaria itself.
Soon, also the mountainous areas south of Jerusalem came under the control of the rebels, taking over Hebron.
Only Nabatea, Galilee, and coastal areas remain outside of rebel control, aa well as the city of Jerusalem and town of Bethlehem
By spring 818, many Christians have fled northwards or westwards, to areas outside of rebel control. While Ghatafanid armies have crossed the Jordan army and restored control in some of the towns on the West Bank, they failed to restore order in the hinterlands. After having lost a few battles, the rebels would retreat to mountain forts and refuges, and switch to guerrilla tactics.
In may, the city-state of Acre seized the opportunity and assumed control over the Yezreel Valley and the Galilee. They were welcomed by local Christians, whether they be Chalcedonian or to a lesser extent Miaphysite.
Despite their religious differences, tge Phoenician city states have supported the Jewish rebels, seeing a political fragmentation of the Levant. Egypt as well used the opportunity to conquer the coastal strip north of Gaza until Mount Carmel.
The Egyptian king soon pressed both parties to cease hostilities. Ultimately, he managed to effectively vassalize the Kingdom of Israel , and assuming the title of Advocate of the Christians in Israel. However, except Ebionites there were few Christians in the realm outside Jerusalem and Bethlehem.
The Sanheddron as an institution assumed a more important role in the society. Many Jews from Arabia Petrea and Egypt would return to Israel and boost the Jewish segment of the society.
Relations with the Samaritans remained stable throughout the first half of the ninth century, and Samaritans enjoyed internal autonomy.
@Tomislav Addai I have some observations concerning the restored Israel:
• I can see the Sanhedrin evolving over the centuries into a bicameral Knesset with the Sanhedrin serving as the upper chamber similar to the US Senate or the House of Lords in OTL.
• The Melkites assuming a role similar to the OTL English Catholics after the establishment of the Anglican Church, a potential fifth column that will at various times scheme to either overthrow the ruling dynasty or to restore Rhomaic rule which will result either Miriam herself or her successors bringing the hammer down on them.
• I don’t see the coastal plains being under Egyptian rule as a long term thing. If Miriam herself doesn’t seize the coastal plains, her successors no doubt will.
• Who will the lucky (or unlucky) man that’ll marry Miriam? The pickings will be slim although I can see the Egyptian king trying to marry one of his younger sons to her. Now if I was Miriam, I would try to get a husband from either the Seimen region of Axum, Mesopotamia, or perhaps even Europe. The potential husband needs to be prestigious enough to help legitimize his new wife’s regime and yet humble or pragmatic enough to accept his role.
• I can see the Sanhedrin evolving over the centuries into a bicameral Knesset with the Sanhedrin serving as the upper chamber similar to the US Senate or the House of Lords in OTL.
• The Melkites assuming a role similar to the OTL English Catholics after the establishment of the Anglican Church, a potential fifth column that will at various times scheme to either overthrow the ruling dynasty or to restore Rhomaic rule which will result either Miriam herself or her successors bringing the hammer down on them.
• I don’t see the coastal plains being under Egyptian rule as a long term thing. If Miriam herself doesn’t seize the coastal plains, her successors no doubt will.
• Who will the lucky (or unlucky) man that’ll marry Miriam? The pickings will be slim although I can see the Egyptian king trying to marry one of his younger sons to her. Now if I was Miriam, I would try to get a husband from either the Seimen region of Axum, Mesopotamia, or perhaps even Europe. The potential husband needs to be prestigious enough to help legitimize his new wife’s regime and yet humble or pragmatic enough to accept his role.
Chapter 27: Prosperity Beneath the Cedars
Further north lies the Phoenician coast: a region which was in the 9th century home to a number of merchant republics in the maritime cities. Politically, the area was divided among the the Republics of Beirut, Sidon and Tyre; to the north lay tge County of Tripoli and to the south the Duchy of Galilee, which emerged in the 820s after the City of Acre conquered most of Galilee.
The commander of the Acrian army titled himself Duke of Galilee and declared Nazareth as his seat; confirming the privileges of the citizens of Acre in political and commercial spheres.
The result was, that the citizens were not rebelling; after all it was at that time seen rather unrealistic to have a republic ruling over such a large area.
The upper parts of the valleys on the western side of the Lebanon mountains had by now becoem fully incorporated into the maritime republics. They provided cedar wood, livestock and recruits to the republics; the cities themselves focused on mainly on maritime trade and manufacturing , or making high quality or luxury goods. Lebanese merchants have come to dominate trade across much of the eastern Mediterranean: Lebanese merchants were often seen in Egypt and Cyprus. As with Rhomania, markets were open during the first half of the 9th century. However, the region of Phoenicia has been viewed by some of the Rhomaic emperors as de iure rightfully Rhomaic lands. This pressure resulted in the County of Tripoli placing itself under Rhomaic suzerainty in 863.
The weakening of the Ghassanid realm continued. The Bekaa valley, comprising the upper reaches of the Orontesriver is bound by the Lebanon mountains to the west and the Antilebanon range to the east. The valley was viewed of strategic importance by the merchants of the Lebanese states, and therefore, when the Count of Zahle, Mkhayel, revolted against his liege, the Ghassanid king in Damascus. He was soon aided by all the Phoenician cities, and was able, with Beirutian, Sidonian and Tyrean aid, to defeat the Ghassanids. In the war it proved that the forces recruited from the valleys, used to and trained for mountain warfare, managed to defeat the Ghassanid forces, which put too much emphasis on mobile cavalry, which in the hilly terrain of Lebanon showed not to be the best idea
The commander of the Acrian army titled himself Duke of Galilee and declared Nazareth as his seat; confirming the privileges of the citizens of Acre in political and commercial spheres.
The result was, that the citizens were not rebelling; after all it was at that time seen rather unrealistic to have a republic ruling over such a large area.
The upper parts of the valleys on the western side of the Lebanon mountains had by now becoem fully incorporated into the maritime republics. They provided cedar wood, livestock and recruits to the republics; the cities themselves focused on mainly on maritime trade and manufacturing , or making high quality or luxury goods. Lebanese merchants have come to dominate trade across much of the eastern Mediterranean: Lebanese merchants were often seen in Egypt and Cyprus. As with Rhomania, markets were open during the first half of the 9th century. However, the region of Phoenicia has been viewed by some of the Rhomaic emperors as de iure rightfully Rhomaic lands. This pressure resulted in the County of Tripoli placing itself under Rhomaic suzerainty in 863.
The weakening of the Ghassanid realm continued. The Bekaa valley, comprising the upper reaches of the Orontesriver is bound by the Lebanon mountains to the west and the Antilebanon range to the east. The valley was viewed of strategic importance by the merchants of the Lebanese states, and therefore, when the Count of Zahle, Mkhayel, revolted against his liege, the Ghassanid king in Damascus. He was soon aided by all the Phoenician cities, and was able, with Beirutian, Sidonian and Tyrean aid, to defeat the Ghassanids. In the war it proved that the forces recruited from the valleys, used to and trained for mountain warfare, managed to defeat the Ghassanid forces, which put too much emphasis on mobile cavalry, which in the hilly terrain of Lebanon showed not to be the best idea
Sorry guys I doubt I will update this any time soon, for have to finish my thesis rather soon.
Chapter 28: Beth Nahraim
Meanwhile, the power balance in Mesopotamia was gradually changing. While Assyria appeared to be on the rise, with their military tradition, ready to take advantage of the disunited kingdom of Sawad, where the dukes enjoyed large autonomy, the course of history has changed the outcome.
As it happened, Assyria was torn apart by sectarian differences. During a succession crisis, when the eldest son Addai, who has lost his right hand in a hunting accident was challenged by Cephas, who gathered support among the Syriac Orthodox, while Addai was supported by Nestorian Christians.
Thus in the first decade of the ninth century, when the war erupted,the animosities between the two branches, which represented polar opposites in the great christological debate, the conflict was already latent.
In 818 AD thus the realm split, with the Addai securing the Tigris valley, while Khabour was held by Cephas. The large Syriac Orthodox community was persecuted in Tagrit .
The kings of Sawat have gradually managed to extend their authority and press the nobles to answer them. Mesopotamia has managed to remain a center of world research and science. Later historians tried to seek a link between some properties of the Nestoriam religion and the motivation for scholars to do research. Or perhaps it was the historical legacy of the ancient Mesopotamian civilization. Apart from theology and linguistics, which were studied in monasteries, the renowned universities of Sawad cultivated natural sciences, such as geometry, chemistry, mathematics and philosophy.
By the mid-ninth century, the Beth Qatriye has culturally become so much connected to Sawad, that when king Giwarkis set on a brief campaign to subdue the area, in 846, he met little resistance. The area was predominantly Nestorian and Aramaic-speaking, with a significant Manichean presence.
Further west, the Ghassanids, who were in steady decline, were confronted by the Rhomaic reconquista, when they forced to pay trivute in 811, and then again in 837, when they lost the Orontes valley, and were redeuced to the region of Damascus .
The city of Beroia, or Aleppo, independent for over a century, placed itself under the suzerainty of the Rhomaic empire after the brisk victory of the Rhomaic empire over the Ghassanids.
The Ghassanid dynasty in Dmascus was in 843 replaced by a coup by the Yabroudi dynasty, under Sarkis of Yabroud, who was a general.
As it happened, Assyria was torn apart by sectarian differences. During a succession crisis, when the eldest son Addai, who has lost his right hand in a hunting accident was challenged by Cephas, who gathered support among the Syriac Orthodox, while Addai was supported by Nestorian Christians.
Thus in the first decade of the ninth century, when the war erupted,the animosities between the two branches, which represented polar opposites in the great christological debate, the conflict was already latent.
In 818 AD thus the realm split, with the Addai securing the Tigris valley, while Khabour was held by Cephas. The large Syriac Orthodox community was persecuted in Tagrit .
The kings of Sawat have gradually managed to extend their authority and press the nobles to answer them. Mesopotamia has managed to remain a center of world research and science. Later historians tried to seek a link between some properties of the Nestoriam religion and the motivation for scholars to do research. Or perhaps it was the historical legacy of the ancient Mesopotamian civilization. Apart from theology and linguistics, which were studied in monasteries, the renowned universities of Sawad cultivated natural sciences, such as geometry, chemistry, mathematics and philosophy.
By the mid-ninth century, the Beth Qatriye has culturally become so much connected to Sawad, that when king Giwarkis set on a brief campaign to subdue the area, in 846, he met little resistance. The area was predominantly Nestorian and Aramaic-speaking, with a significant Manichean presence.
Further west, the Ghassanids, who were in steady decline, were confronted by the Rhomaic reconquista, when they forced to pay trivute in 811, and then again in 837, when they lost the Orontes valley, and were redeuced to the region of Damascus .
The city of Beroia, or Aleppo, independent for over a century, placed itself under the suzerainty of the Rhomaic empire after the brisk victory of the Rhomaic empire over the Ghassanids.
The Ghassanid dynasty in Dmascus was in 843 replaced by a coup by the Yabroudi dynasty, under Sarkis of Yabroud, who was a general.