In a scenario where the Rashidis defeated the Saudis during the Saudi-Rashidi War, rendering the House of Saud a historical footnote and unites Arabia in a manner akin to the Saudis IOTL, how does Arabia develop? What does a Jabal Shammar which encompasses the territory of OTL Saudi Arabia look like? How does the lack of Wahhabism affect the wider Middle East?
WI: Rashidi Arabia
- Thread starter Whiteshore
- Start date
Well we could have a genuine Middle Eastern ally and not an oil dealer that in all other aspects should be an enemy of the United States
Can you elaborate on that? How would the house of Rashid make such a difference?
The house of Saud and its extremism funds every terrorist cell and school of Islam america has fought for ~18 years. The Rashids wouldn’t necessarily ally with America, but I highly doubt they would fund those radicals.
Did the Rashids follow a different theological school? As I understand, the Sauds are in a symbiotic relationship with Wahabi clerics, which they have to appease in order to remain in power.
If the above is correct, how would this PoD affect the bulk of the population?
Radishi's followed the mainstream Sunni Islam of the time, while the Saudi's follow Wahhabi interpretation of Islam.
Without the Saudis, the British probably don't have split loyalties and so the Hashemites end up in charge of Nejd and Hedjaz instead of ibn Saud kicking them out. Those states might remain independent.
Anway, we're looking at presumably a strong ally to the British, but also to Jordan and Iraq. It would be interesting to see if this kingdom is as willing to play ball with the Americans over oil, or if it will stick to the British, or play the US and UK off of each other. Plus, likely to modernize, etc.
One thing that's interesting is whether this kingdom/these kingdoms might fall to Arab nationalist republics, where the Saudis did not. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about Arab nationalism in Arabia to say more.
The Middle East is still going to be a chaotic mess of a region, but at least Wahabbism won't be thrown into the mix.
Propably. Arabia has always been very tribalist and it would be very difficult remove tribal system and replace that with centralised government.
So TTL's Islamism is going to be mainly inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood?
Ian_W
Banned
I wouldn't bet on that.
The House of Saud cut a deal with the Wahabbi for the same reasons the House of Orange cut a deal with the Calvinists.
Deleted member 109224
Ha'il is actually on significant Arabian trade and migration/travel route, so I can see it being larger that OTL Riyadh.
The question is, how much oil do the Rashidis have? Without Ibn Saud's personal relationship with Percy Cox, Kuwait will be three times its OTL size and have a good amount more oil.
Never knew Kuwait once held part of today's OTL Eastern Province in Saudi Arabia, doesn't the area still hold a large Shia population?
Y’all are missing a larger picture here.
The Rashidi were historical allies of the Ottoman Empire. If they got more land under them, it would mean that they’d be a more formidable threat to the Hashemites if they still allied under the British.
If the Rashidi has United most of the other tribes, the Hashemites may not be as willing to help the British. Either the Hashemites remain neutral or the British will have to provide better concessions.
It’s likely the Hejaz would remain separate from the rest of Arabia, being a larger Jamal Shammar. My guess is that they would have closer ties with Turkey and definitely be more reasonable than Saudi Arabia.
The Rashidi were historical allies of the Ottoman Empire. If they got more land under them, it would mean that they’d be a more formidable threat to the Hashemites if they still allied under the British.
If the Rashidi has United most of the other tribes, the Hashemites may not be as willing to help the British. Either the Hashemites remain neutral or the British will have to provide better concessions.
It’s likely the Hejaz would remain separate from the rest of Arabia, being a larger Jamal Shammar. My guess is that they would have closer ties with Turkey and definitely be more reasonable than Saudi Arabia.
Anyways, what would be the larger impact of Rashidi Arabia/Greater Jabal Shammar on the Middle East?
Ian_W
Banned
The big impact on the Middle East was the three-cornered fight for the region between the traditional kings, the Young Turk modernisers and the communists, later adding political Shi'a.
Which tribal leadership gets dominance over what bit of land isn't very important - whats more important is that it's traditional leadership rather than an Attaturk or a Nasser.
And then you have the issue of nationalising the oil.