An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[Curtain Jerker]

There are 200,000 Greeks facing 60,000 Germans out in the open without any notable entrenchments on either side. (the German siege lines are facing Thessaloniki not their rear). To apply Lanchester's square law, the whole German army would be destroyed at slightly over 9,000 casualties.

I agree with the spirit of this post but I'm sure the Germans/Allied built some sort of defenses for their camp. They've been there for three months after all and building defenses facing outward is par for the course for a besieging army of that era.

That being said odds are they won't do much in the grand scheme of things to alter the course of battle. The numbers are too overwhelming for field works to make a substantial difference.

 

[Lascaris]

I agree with the spirit of this post but I'm sure the Germans/Allied built some sort of defenses for their camp. They've been there for three months after all and building defenses facing outward is par for the course for a besieging army of that era.

That being said odds are they won't do much in the grand scheme of things to alter the course of battle. The numbers are too overwhelming for field works to make a substantial difference.

Sure the Germans probably have... but the beauty of the thing, at least for the imperial army, is that they don't need to attack them. By their mere presence they've cut off the German ability to forage. The Germans can either stay within their fortified camps and starve or come out and take on the relief army... which will be in the tactical defensive. Or surrender.

 

[ImperatorAlexander]

It’s already confirmed that cannon fire can be heard from Constantinople.
If the Allies remain in their camp the Romans can blow the defences apart with 500+ cannons and then destroy the Allies at their pleasure.
Or the Allies can march out and the Romans will destroy them at their pleasure.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

I don't think D3 and his generals will play the long game and bait the Allies out of their shell around Thessaloniki simply because it is a massive strain to keep the hundreds of thousands of men in supply in the field. Even with the sealift the quartermasters are working overtime just to make sure the men don't starve. The less time this massive army is in the field the easier it is on everyone involved.

 

[Babyrage]

Theodor’s strategy hinges on defeating the relief army to compel Thessaloniki to surrender.

He’ll march out thinking he’s only facing Torinikes with some reinforcements, then get surrounded by the full Roman Army.
Once they’re fully engaged I suppose the Thessaloniki garrison can sally and storm the Allied camp for good measure.

 

[Donald Reaver]

Theodor’s strategy hinges on defeating the relief army to compel Thessaloniki to surrender.

He’ll march out thinking he’s only facing Torinikes with some reinforcements, then get surrounded by the full Roman Army.
Once they’re fully engaged I suppose the Thessaloniki garrison can sally and storm the Allied camp for good measure.

That might be dangerous if the garrison sallies, always a chance it fails and desperate troops from the Allies assault open gates. Rather use your guns and expend all your gunpowder and shot as quickly and effectively as possible.

 

[TheWanderingReader]

. It is an unlikely trio, a pudgy friar, a tall red-bearded sergeant, and a Greek priest, but the three sit and talk around the fire. As generals and kings move their forces on the chessboard of the world, as empires and peoples send forth all their might and majesty into battle, these three insignificant men sit and discuss the world. The world as it is, and the world as it should be.

Ideas like these are sure to usher in a new age once it's all over, I'm looking forward to see how TTL's Age of Enlightenedment is going to go, the philosophical discussions are sure to be great.

As for the upcoming battle, I'm hyped. Fingers crossed Archbishop Bone breaker can survive at least, that man is a badass.

 

[Babyrage]

That might be dangerous if the garrison sallies, always a chance it fails and desperate troops from the Allies assault open gates. Rather use your guns and expend all your gunpowder and shot as quickly and effectively as possible.

If the garrison sallies that’s 20,000+ men piling into 60,000 who are busy fighting 200,000. Pretty good odds, I assume it’ll be all hands on deck once the Allies realises their situation, minimal rear guard to protect against a sally.

 

[Komnenos002]

I'm not entirely sold on the idea that the upcoming battle will be a one-sided curbstomp. For all that the Imperial army is surrounded and outgunned, I doubt we'll see anyone break and flee. The Rhomans will probably kill them, but if they run from the field, they'll almost certainly run afoul of those damned partisans, the ones who have a habit of eating the people they kill. The fact that it was only one or two partisan bands that turned to cannibalism won't matter; to the Imperials, every partisan will be a man-eater.

In addition to which, as much as the leaders of the Imperial army hate each other, they're all in the same trap; the only way they can get out of it and go back to killing each other is to stand together and either beat the Rhomans or at least fight their way clear. And as battered as the Imperial army is, it still has teeth, and there's nothing more dangerous than a wounded and cornered animal. Casimir especially knows that his survival depends on fighting the Rhomans to a standstill long enough to retreat, and I imagine that 'Bone Breaker' can also expect a quick death at best from the Rhomans. Vauban may be less desperate, he's just a professional following his king's orders, but Theodore will almost certainly prefer to fight to the death than admit the possibility of capture; his pride won't stand for anything less.

I concede that the Rhomans will probably win, but it'll probably be a Malplaquet rather than a Blenheim.

While I agree with your points, I do struggle to see your conclusion.

The Allied Army is fractured and strained after a long and difficult siege. The Rhoman Army is in familiar terrain, has taken the time to surround the Allies and block off their lines of retreat. The Rhomans outnumber them four to one. The Rhomans can envelop the Allied Army even without the garrison sallying into the rear of the Allies.

Let's assume the Allied Army fights to the death. Let's assume that despite such daunting odds they inflict equal casualties on a vastly superior foe. That still leaves the Rhomans with three quarters of their army still standing compared to total obliteration.

The last several centuries have taught me to never underestimate Rhoman luck - perhaps Rhoman detachments mistake one another for the enemy and kill one another, as the Allied Army outmaneuvers blocking forces lead by blind and geriatric retirees - but even still the sheer disparity has to tell at some point.

 

[Wolttaire]

While I agree with your points, I do struggle to see your conclusion.

The Allied Army is fractured and strained after a long and difficult siege. The Rhoman Army is in familiar terrain, has taken the time to surround the Allies and block off their lines of retreat. The Rhomans outnumber them four to one. The Rhomans can envelop the Allied Army even without the garrison sallying into the rear of the Allies.

Let's assume the Allied Army fights to the death. Let's assume that despite such daunting odds they inflict equal casualties on a vastly superior foe. That still leaves the Rhomans with three quarters of their army still standing compared to total obliteration.

The last several centuries have taught me to never underestimate Rhoman luck - perhaps Rhoman detachments mistake one another for the enemy and kill one another, as the Allied Army outmaneuvers blocking forces lead by blind and geriatric retirees - but even still the sheer disparity has to tell at some point.

or the spear of longius come down from the sky killing multipe key roman commanders and giving the latins a morale boost allwoing them to comeplty vanquish the roman army
or a lucky canonball

 

[JSC]

or the spear of longius come down from the sky killing multipe key roman commanders and giving the latins a morale boost allwoing them to comeplty vanquish the roman army
or a lucky canonball

You think too small. This battle we will finally discover that there was a systematic defect in cannon and musket production that will lead to the cannons all exploding while the muskets literally fall apart just as the Romans reach firing range.

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

Or an earthquake hits the via egnitia and swallows them up as they approach and thats the thunder D3 hears.

 

[Βοανηργές]

Let's assume that despite such daunting odds they inflict equal casualties on a vastly superior foe. That still leaves the Rhomans with three quarters of their army still standing compared to total obliteration.

Perhaps they will be inspired by a copy of the movie 300, sent to an alternate timeline 372 years before its production.

 

[Grammar Kaiser]

Perhaps they will be inspired by a copy of the movie 300, sent to an alternate timeline 372 years before its production.

Theodor: Tonight we dine in Hell gentlemen!

King Casimir: I'D RATHER BE A HERETIC THAN SATANIST! (Switches sides mid-battle).

 

[Lascaris]

or the spear of longius come down from the sky killing multipe key roman commanders and giving the latins a morale boost allwoing them to comeplty vanquish the roman army
or a lucky canonball

Pfff. The spear is securely in Constantinople. Ok the tip has been stolen by the crusaders and is in Paris... but this will be taken care of in due time.

 

[Wolttaire]

Pfff. The spear is securely in Constantinople. Ok the tip has been stolen by the crusaders and is in Paris... but this will be taken care of in due time.

well... what about the one in Austria
Then more likely a hidden relief army/navy will ride in and save the day or infighting in the army will allow them to win, the empoer will due some stupid assualts that make the forces equal or russia will delcare war on them for reasons

 

[Lascaris]

well... what about the one in Austria
Then more likely a hidden relief army/navy will ride in and save the day or infighting in the army will allow them to win, the empoer will due some stupid assualts that make the forces equal or russia will delcare war on them for reasons

That's obviously not the real one!

 

[Cryostorm]

Well considering the legends attached to it, the whole conquer the world bit, the real spear head is probably hidden under Washington at the moment with pieces in various other countries as protection from that particular weapon of mass conquest.

 

[Donald Reaver]

Well considering the legends attached to it, the whole conquer the world bit, the real spear head is probably hidden under Washington at the moment with pieces in various other countries as protection from that particular weapon of mass conquest.

Likely under the Washington monument, less rude reason why it looks that way.

 

[Vince]

You think too small. This battle we will finally discover that there was a systematic defect in cannon and musket production that will lead to the cannons all exploding while the muskets literally fall apart just as the Romans reach firing range.

1635: After hearing of the disastrous defeat at Thessaloniki, Emperor Demetrios III boards a dromon in Constantinople with his mistress and a lifetime supply of kaffos. He is never seen or heard from again.