That does raise the question of which version of the F-117. The different variants that have been proposed over the years are something of a mess, IIRC two separate ones from different time periods having the same designation, and based on estimates so it's hard to keep track of the performance figures. If the UK had gone ahead, and personally I can't really see it due to the large cost and limited/specialised role they performed, then assuming that it was one of the later variants - enlarged and reduced sweep wings, tailerons, improved engines, bulged bomb bay etc. - it might have actually prompted a new US order as well due to politicians not wanting someone else to have a better version.
The air-to-air numbers of the Finnish Republic look a little high compared to their neighbors...Sweden with 72 and RNoAF being ~60 (as they phase out the F-16's to 52 F-35's).
Regarding the MiG-21's, these numbers will make the Finnish one of the largest users left in the world.
Air Defense Force of the Finnish Republic - 2019
After the Finnish Revolution in November 1917 the new Red Finland declared independence and joined new Soviet Russia in co-operation. Contrary to expectations, the People's Republic of Finland was not annexed by Soviet Union but remained a communist puppet state showroom with both overt and covert Soviet presence. During the Cold War Finland was naturally part of the Warsaw Pact and after the end of the Cold War this most loyal of Soviet clients did not see similar liberalization tendencies to other former Communist states. Under the President for Life Paavo Väyrynen Finland has eagerly joined Russia in co-operation to form a new multipolar world. Like during the Cold War, Finland is an important part for Russian defences and also a stepping stone against NATO Sweden and Estonia. Väyrynen has also guarded independence of Finland by creating direct military links to China with his new enterprising ambassador Peter Vesterbacka.
Thus the aircraft inventory of the Air Defense Force consists of an interesting mix of aircraft types:
- 21 MiG-31 to be upgraded to BM standard, originally procured during 1980's
- 45 MiG-21 LanceR-F, as Soviet Union collapsed before Finnish purchase of MiG-29's, Finland upgraded it's MiG-21's to LanceR standard
- 30 Chengdu J-10C on order, to replace MiG-21's
- 30 PZL-Valmet 230 Skorpioni, Finnish built CAS aircraft, originally to be procured by both Poland and Finland but finally only by Finland
- 15 Aero L-39 Albatros trainer
- 21 Mi-24 attack helicopters
Your post is based on a mass death of butterflies, surely...
can you turn the Javelin into a strike fighter /CAS platform to be used by commonwealth states after retired from RAF
Please ! I love that airplane
It's a bit late to do now but two possibilities I've been considering are earlier liquid propellant work in the UK seeing the Brakemine surface-to-air missile being successfully deployed in limited numbers during WWII, having the effect of accelerating later guided weapons development, and due to Power Jets having more resources jet engine development is advanced twelve months or so the Short Sperrin becomes the world's first jet-powered heavy bomber replacing the Vickers Valiant.
That does raise the question of which version of the F-117. The different variants that have been proposed over the years are something of a mess, IIRC two separate ones from different time periods having the same designation, and based on estimates so it's hard to keep track of the performance figures. If the UK had gone ahead, and personally I can't really see it due to the large cost and limited/specialised role they performed, then assuming that it was one of the later variants - enlarged and reduced sweep wings, tailerons, improved engines, bulged bomb bay etc. - it might have actually prompted a new US order as well due to politicians not wanting someone else to have a better version.
I know you're talking comparatively but 'higher performance' is not something I normally expect to see written about the Jaguar - certainly not in its favour. The standard joke after all was that it relied more on long takeoff runs and the curvature of the earth to get airborne, although in fairness that was the earlier marks. It was a rather decent aircraft and if they'd actually gone ahead with the improved version with the enlarged wings, referred to as 'tin wing' IIRC, and engines with more power it would have been even better.
In an ideal world they would have realised early on in the programme that combining the trainer and ground attack roles in the same aircraft was leading to one which was lacklustre at both and split them. Of course that might well derail the whole thing since the Armee de l'Air were under funding pressures and the joint role was how they had been able to see the whole project.
That's half of it but you don't mention design capability. That's a highly specialised field that if not kept in work will deteriorate quite quickly, the state of the art keeps advancing, and disappear. Once that's gone you're pretty much locked into buying foreign aircraft, either directly or by licensed production, as rebuilding the capacity is often seen as too expensive and long-term.
The Indians seem to absolutely love their Jaguars. I honestly don't know why.
I wonder if the buccaneer could have seen more widespread and longer lasting service. Maybe have the USMC operate it.
Why not? IIUC Jaguars are a perfectly serviceable, capable and sufficiently effect attack aircraft and probably well suited to India's needs. In reality this is far more important to air forces then paper tops speeds or bomb loads that people fixate on.
USMC Buccaneers are not going to happen given the USN buys their aircraft and operates them from carriers. However IIUC Buccaneers were in the running for the West German Marineflieger maritime strike requirement that the F104G won by bribery. In addition South Africa wanted another batch of 16.
(ASB? Finnish defence forces had minuscule budget during the Cold War compared to most European countries. SA-2 purchase was a done deal sidelined by political issues, MiG-21F purchase was made instead and was considered the secondary option. Thus a different path might well have been taken and the improvement path might have been very different. Ahti Lappi is a retired antiaircraft branch officer actively lobbying for more AA missiles instead of fighters.)
As Lightnings were getting more and more outdated and more difficult to operate, Finland decided to buy SAAB Drakens license built by Valmet for economic reasons.
Err, no, I called it a 'rather decent aircraft'. The fact that it had small-ish wings, although that apparently helped with low-level flight, and early models were a tad underpowered, leading to the aforementioned jokes, doesn't detract from an otherwise good aircraft. Even without top of the line electronics, the British having paid for better ones that the French models, a robust design, ease of maintenance and operation, adds up the an aircraft that can carry out the basic ground attack role well without breaking the bank.Well the poster I was responding too was calling the Jaguar mediocre.
Now I'm not saying this is a good idea with hindsight but....
1945 after the surrender of Japan Britain realises that the new Lincoln bomber is at best obsolescent and when they get the Abomb won't be able to carry it. To fill this gap they buy at scrap value all the remaining Consolidated B32 Dominators that the USAF doesn't want. When these are no longer airworthy due to lack of spares they buy 100 B 36, which after the delivery of the first V bomber are used as tankers and maritime patrol aircraft for use over the Indian Ocean.
Err, no, I called it a 'rather decent aircraft'. The fact that it had small-ish wings, although that apparently helped with long-level flight, and early models were a tad underpowered, leading to the aforementioned jokes, doesn't detract from an otherwise good aircraft. Even without top of the line electronics, the British having paid for better ones that the French models, a robust design, ease of maintenance and operation, adds up the an aircraft that can carry out the basic ground attack role well without breaking the bank.
Britain's broke and the USAAF is essentially throwing them away so they can be had dirt cheap. Would B29's be better? Yes. Can Britain afford the most advanced bomber in the world in 1945/6? No. Even with cannibalisation I doubt they'd see out the 40's.Wasn't the B32 a pretty problematic aircraft? And with it being abandoned by the US isn't support going to be a problem? Wouldn't just buying B29s be a better idea?
Err, no, I called it a 'rather decent aircraft'. The fact that it had small-ish wings, although that apparently helped with long-level flight, and early models were a tad underpowered, leading to the aforementioned jokes, doesn't detract from an otherwise good aircraft. Even without top of the line electronics, the British having paid for better ones that the French models, a robust design, ease of maintenance and operation, adds up the an aircraft that can carry out the basic ground attack role well without breaking the bank.