Land of Sweetness: A Pre-Columbian Timeline

How secure is the Chololtec hold over the Tlaxcallan polity and other subkingdoms?
Fairly secure. The source of Cholōltec authority among the eastern Nahuas is sacral and commercial more than military, and the Tlaxcaltec leadership, which Cholōltec preference for absolute rulers has turned into a confederate monarchy ITTL and not the OTL oligarchy, owes much of the legitimacy of their position to the religious support of the Quetzalcōhuātl priesthood. So there's genuine goodwill for Cholōllān on the part of the other Nahua lords, a goodwill especially buttressed by the fact that Ah Ek Lemba represents an utterly foreign force whose behavior is more dishonorable and untrustworthy (in matters such as their general refusal to take captives or use of night attacks) than any force ever previously seen in Central Mexico. Most of the Nahuas are willing to stand with the aquiach to the bitter end.

It's a very different situation from the one faced by Tenōchtitlan in 1521.

Yodzo Coo is Mixtec? Why are the Mixtecs in the mountains north of the Zapotecs and on the coast south of them at the same time?
Both OTL and TTL, the Mixtecs of the western highlands migrated east into Oaxaca en masse in the Postclassic following the decline of Zapotec political authority, from both north and south. In fact, by the OTL fifteenth century, the most powerful polity in the Valley of Oaxaca was the Mixtec kingdom of Saha Yucu, founded only six miles away from the traditional Zapotec capital of Zaachila in brazen challenge to several millennia of Zapotec hegemony in the area.

In the case of Yodzo Coo, the sixteenth-century Lienzo de Tlapiltepec suggests that the kingdom was founded with Nahua support in the late eleventh century, before TTL's POD has significantly affected the Mixteca. As for the coast, the Mixtec kingdom of Yucu Dzaa that would come to dominate the entire Oaxacan coastline was established by the warlord Iya Nacuaa also in around 1100 A.D. Yucu Dzaa's OTL conquest of the coast has been little-altered in extent ITTL, if accelerated chronologically thanks to the greater advantages of the littoral that the sail and outrigger have brought.

So both Yodzo Coo and the coast have been politically Mixtec-dominated for a long time.
 
@Every Grass in Java , I dont know what you did to me, but since this war started to go wrong I started to notice that I am really rooting for Ah Ek Lemba. You somehow got me genuinely worried when his soldiers doubt him, I got genuinely sad with Little Finger's death and I got really mad with the Aquiach for winning in defending his land against a character based on Genghis Khan. I somehow without noticing got really attached to a character that drowns the world in blood, and I want to see him keep on winning and live happily. This is quite confusing, as I generally like reformers and administrator as type of rulers and I generally look with desdain on Worldconquerors of the like of Alexander or Temujin who build giants of clay feet and leave chaos as their only sucesor. But not with Ah Ek Lemba.
 
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@Every Grass in Java , I dont know what you did to me, but since this war started to go wrong I started to notice that I am really rooting for Ah Ek Lemba. You somehow got me genuinely worried when his soldiers doubt him, I got genuinely sad with Little Finger's death and I got really mad with the Aquiach for winning in defending his land against a character based on Genghis Khan. I somehow without noticing got really attached to a character that drowns the world in blood, and I want to see him keep on winning and live happily.

See, I'm the opposite. For me, seeing AEL lose is cathartic
 
taigan religion is interesting, don't remember another monotheistic religion with a woman prophet, these religions are always quite patriarchal as well as almost all societies of course, so my the question is : Taigan society is more egalitarian in the relationship between the sexes than in comparison with its monotheistic societies parallels in the old world ?
 
I'll bump this thread with a question about why the more commercially productive Mesoamerica and its extension in various later Mississippian groups has not reinvigorated the later Mississippian cultures of the Tennessee and Cumberland. These areas were rich in civilisation, exemplified by the centers at Castalian Springs, Mound Bottom (along the Harpeth, a major tributary of the Cumberland--this site was suprisingly influential at one point), or the many towns whose remains were destroyed by the growth of Nashville in the post Civil War era (it's reputed that development in the city regularly spit up Indian bones and other artifacts--to this day development in the Nashville area digs up huge amounts of Indian remains). Even into the early 15th century, the Nashville area was still productive. This final phase of Mississippian Indians in Tennessee now mostly is buried in development in the Nashville area (beneath a very busy intersection lies the remains of one of their villages). Although Mississippians are not one of the focuses here, I think the interior Mississippians (like those in Tennessee) can do better, and if they can't, I'd imagine they'll get replaced, since the Nashville Basin is very rich land. Having encountered several prominent local archaeologists when I was in college (most recent articles on the Middle Cumberland Culture will cite professors I know), I've still never been able to understand how the entire area was effectively abandoned in that era, and when Europeans first encountered the area it was nothing but a hunting preserve ranged by the Cherokee, Shawnee, and other outsiders. IIRC even early (late 19th century) accounts of Middle Tennessee archaeology express similar sentiments. Basically, why should this area be abandoned? Drought and famine was indeed destructive, but Mississippians existed in the area until the early 15th century OTL (i.e. Kellytown site, Davidson County, TN). If the Mississippian cultures are to be buffed at all, I think the cultures in Middle Tennessee should be stronger. It's too natural of a site to lay "fallow". As noted, into the 15th century weakened descendents of the Mississippians remained in the area. What is their role ITTL?

Secondly, what about yaupon, Ilex vomitoria? It grows along the gulf coast in the US, and a subspecies grows in Chiapas. In North America it was an important trade good in pre-Columbian times (exported as far north as Cahokia). Although often used as composition of the "black drink", which contained emetic herbs and was used for ritualistic purposes, yaupon is a nice caffeinated beverage, as it is a relative of yerba mate. I'd expect that a connection is made between the Chiapas yaupon and the gulf coast yaupon, and that trade in yaupon expands quite a bit. Aside from yerba mate, it's the best native caffeinated drink the Americas has and was used as such by American patriots after the Boston Tea Party (although it's later reputation was that of a drink of impoverished Southerners).

Overall I just await a continuation of this TL, and an end to the Ah Ek Lemba saga which hopefully ends with him dealing some justice to those who won't fight fair. Mesoamerica must be drowned in blood for what they've done to him and his friends.

I'm in the tank for AEL; may Cholollan be made one with Nineveh and Tyre!

Not even that, but the most exaggerated sort. Cholollan should be nothing but a ruin when Ah Ek Lemba is through with them. Only when Cholollan is destroyed shall Ah Ek Lemba be allowed to die.
 
Not even that, but the most exaggerated sort. Cholollan should be nothing but a ruin when Ah Ek Lemba is through with them. Only when Cholollan is destroyed shall Ah Ek Lemba be allowed to die.

Man, why can't we just have a neighborhood or two razed to make a point and the rest of the city left intact? It's a fine enough city, no point destroying all that beauty (and economic productivity) for nothing. At that point you're no better than the Spaniards...
 
Man, why can't we just have a neighborhood or two razed to make a point and the rest of the city left intact? It's a fine enough city, no point destroying all that beauty (and economic productivity) for nothing. At that point you're no better than the Spaniards...

If he doesn't burn it down and kill everyone, then how can Ah Ek Lemba face Alexander, Temujin, Timur, and all the other great conquerers of the Old World? You can't put your name in history without razing a great city.
 
Man, why can't we just have a neighborhood or two razed to make a point and the rest of the city left intact? It's a fine enough city, no point destroying all that beauty (and economic productivity) for nothing. At that point you're no better than the Spaniards...
also why wouldn’t he raze it? There really not a lot of good reason and give his troops a morale boost
 
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