Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Axis claims fix with actual europe and South America 1942.png

Added Brazil and Argentina. Some of the Nazis' long-term goals included the political penetration and support of the Integralists in Brazil and far-right nationalists in Argentina, both countries which also have notable German populations.
 
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Added Brazil and Argentina. Some of the Nazis' long-term goals included the political penetration and support of the Integralists in Brazil and far-right nationalists in Argentina, both countries which also have notable German populations.
Don't have much to add on to this, but I cleaned up the border colors a bit since some of them used the coast color, and others used a border color. They should all use the border color now.
I also added borders to the unclaimed areas (they're just 1942 OTL borders), and colored two islands in the Azores/Canaries and an island off the coast of China that were still "unclaimed." I would've done the same for Japanese Siberia, but I left it because it didn't seem as obvious as the others (maybe they were left for a rump Soviet Union or something).
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View attachment 458315
Added Brazil and Argentina. Some of the Nazis' long-term goals included the political penetration and support of the Integralists in Brazil and far-right nationalists in Argentina, both countries which also have notable German populations.

In OTL, Perón was cautiously neutral. He was more aligned with Italy than Nazi thought (he even forced some German inmigrants to lower the Nazi flag and hoist the Argentine one in Villa General Belgrano). I would assume than in this ASB scenario of total Axis Victory he would get the South Atlantic Islands and Antartica. (Though there would be competing Chilean claims in the later). If he remained in power, he would probably be more friendly to Mussolinni than Hitler, but who knows how politics might develop in such a world.

This is mostly especulation, as I don't recall any especific plans in Argentina other than "stay neutral", but here's my take, with the Argentine 1940-50s~ provincial borders:

upload_2019-5-9_20-0-44.png


I vaguely recall there were more clear Axis plans for South America though I am not sure.

Perón OTL wanted to extend his Justicialist ideology beyond Argentina to all Latin America via the awesomely named A.T.L.A.S but he found limited success.

I like how Liberia is just sort of there. Untouched. You'd think that all the racists shuffling borders around in Africa as they please might have something to say about them, but apparently none of the fascists cared enough to ever bother making plans for them.

1940s fascists were more busy fighting each other than hating Africans. Sure, they hated them and thought they were inferior, but white supremacy, as in including all whites, is more of a modern thing.
 
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Yeah, and back then their hatred extend to other, "inferior" whites, like Slavs.
speaking as a white guy who's mostly Germanic but identifies as Italian and is also partly Slavic, that's almost certainly because the definition of "white" is so loose and has changed so much across history as to basically be meaningless--remember, little more than a century ago the Help Wanted signs were typically appended with "No Blacks or Irish" despite the latter being "undeniably" white today and plenty of people descended from the discriminated-against Irish doing the exact same things done to their ancestors (lookin' at you, O'Reilly, you racist piece of fucking garbage)
 
I would've done the same for Japanese Siberia, but I left it because it didn't seem as obvious as the others (maybe they were left for a rump Soviet Union or something).

I honestly have no idea what's going on there. I assume the Japanese just forgot to include it in their plans, but they're pretty big islands so that doesn't quite seem right.

Also since there's multiple different colouring methods being used, and since we're almost done with the map, some kind of key would be useful.

I would assume than in this ASB scenario of total Axis Victory he would get the South Atlantic Islands and Antartica. (Though there would be competing Chilean claims in the later).

Did Argentina have an official claim on those islands in the 30s/40s?
 
Did Argentina have an official claim on those islands in the 30s/40s?

Yes, the issue even appeared in some Peronist propaganda. The Malvinas were claimed since the British occupied them in 1833, the Georgias, Sandwich and Orcadas since 1904 or so, and Argentine Antartica since 1941. They all officially form part of Tierra Del Fuego province (more properly, Tierra Del Fuego, South Atlantic Islands, and Argentine Antartica Province).

I don't think Perón ever thought about a military invasion, but I'm pretty sure that if Britain loses WWII in such an (ASB) scenario, he would lose no time in taking them.
 
Also since there's multiple different colouring methods being used, and since we're almost done with the map, some kind of key would be useful.
Yeah, I considered unifying the interior borders and different country shades, but I figured I'd leave it in case I messed something up.
 
Someone should add that stuff we learned about the plan to give land back to the native americans

I don't think there were any concrete plans, just some musings on the topic by Hitler or others. The land would probably have roughly corresponded to the land the tribes were entitled to under broken treaties.
 
I honestly have no idea what's going on there. I assume the Japanese just forgot to include it in their plans, but they're pretty big islands so that doesn't quite seem right.

Also since there's multiple different colouring methods being used, and since we're almost done with the map, some kind of key would be useful.



Did Argentina have an official claim on those islands in the 30s/40s?

Well the dark grey of crimea, burgundy and madgascar are the horror shows of SS run territories....
 

Vuu

Banned
you say that like the Nazis wouldn't take the Holocaust to its logical conclusion....

Why kill all that workforce eh?

Anyways, their initial plans were to just move them from Europe, the Madagascar plan being one of them (damn, they really wanted to give the Jews all that land though? Makes little sense tbh, too nice of them)

The logistics either way are absolutely ludicrous. But the Nazis and logistics weren't such good friends, which cost them their territorial aggrandizement
 
you say that like the Nazis wouldn't take the Holocaust to its logical conclusion....

Why kill all that workforce eh?

Anyways, their initial plans were to just move them from Europe, the Madagascar plan being one of them (damn, they really wanted to give the Jews all that land though? Makes little sense tbh, too nice of them)

The logistics either way are absolutely ludicrous. But the Nazis and logistics weren't such good friends, which cost them their territorial aggrandizement

The initial plan was to deport all of Europe's Jews to Madagascar solely because they felt that a genocide on that scale simply wouldn't have been practical and a waste of resources. Franz Rademacher, Himmler, Eichman, and even Hitler were all in favor of it. It was going to be part of the deal following France's surrender in 1940, with the intended goal of sending a million Jews there annually, with the intent that they would all simply die from being trapped there.

The British naval blockade was the only thing that stopped them, and after losing the Battle of Britain, that's when they decided to scrap the plan and commence with the Final Solution. So either way, they were going to ensure that Europe would be rid of Jews.

If we're going with an ASB Total Axis Victory, I think the Madagascar Plan is an essential addition. No loss at the Battle of Britain means one giant concentration camp instead of lots and lots of small ones.
 
According to this article: https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-onli...th_African_and_Portuguese_Colonial_Objectives there were several plans involving swapping Portuguese colonial territory to Belgium & South Africa in exchange for part of German East Africa. Anyone know how specific the proposed land swaps were?

Probably something along the lines of the maps on the first page in the first post. I remember reading once that Smuts had pushed the idea of swapping German East Africa for most or all of Portuguese East Africa (which would be put under South African control).
 
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