Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
- Start date
As far as I know the Brits made that up or something. Still interesting though.
Also, that's one of the least aesthetically pleasing Chiles I've ever seen.
there was also this apparent plan for South America
i know there's a Worlda version of this floating around somewhere but i don't have it on-hand
Actually, I think this map was fabricated by British Intelligence.
i'm glad i added the qualifier of "apparent" then
Oh yes, I forgot to mention I can't read : P
i mean, i was only half-convinced that it was legit anyway, but Axis South America just looks so lonely
Crazy Boris
Banned
there was also this apparent plan for South America
i know there's a Worlda version of this floating around somewhere but i don't have it on-hand
I like how Bolivia gets partitioned and just to stick it to them even more, Argentina is given access to the Pacific via land that was once Bolivian.
I'd say it would come down to who would manage to seize the island. The Italians, probably would want it for themselves, and the British would want to keep it under their own control.
Reminds me a bit of how I once saw a map in the Map thread where a lot of European Axis countries were given colonies in the Americans, with the Spaniards getting Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, and Cuba at the least. I just mentoin that as I wonder if, in the case of Axis ridiculously total victory, the Nazis would try to exterminate everyone on Hispaniola due to the African and Native blood everyone but the most recent immigrants had somewhere in them. I imagine that, as the Dominican Republic was the only country in the Americas to increase the amount of Jews allowed to immigrant to them (The American Virgin Islands tried to let more in but someone in the federal government stopped them) that the Nazis would put thrmmeven lower on the list. Just bringing it up as I rememeber all those maps people make with the Nazis killing all the Haitians.
Great maps, but why are the plans for Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary are left out? Italy had basically zero influence over them and they were more independent or German influenced. Also the maps of eastern europe are slightly off given we have the actual borders from 1942. So using the map from page 1 to add to these excellent maps:
Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria and Slovakia are good, but I preferred the Yugoslav/Greek region like it was in my version. This version looks a bit closer to OTL than to what Italy had actually planned. But that's just my opinion and I won't change it back.
The Yugoslav and Greek regions are from OTL. The thing about what Italy actually planned is that it overlapped with plans for powers (Germany, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria) that it had no way of bending to its will, especially in Yugoslavia and Greece. In areas where there were no overlapping claims, then the full Italian ambitions make sense to be shown, but Germany had ambitions in Serbia and Croatia (hence the northern part of Croatia was under German influence) and Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria all had their own ambitions that Italy was essentially powerless to stop (Italy wasn't about to go to war with any of those powers over Yugoslavia or Greece; once Italy had control of the Adriatic and most of the eastern Mediterranean then Italy was going to be satisfied).
EDIT: And of course by 1943 things had changed quite a bit, since Bulgaria was then occupying much of Serbia on behalf of Germany since Germany needed the manpower elsewhere:
I wouldn't expect that was the planned state of affairs for either Germany or Bulgaria though, but more like a temporary expediency, so the original map with Serbia is what was initially executed and planned.
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The Yugoslav and Greek regions are from OTL. The thing about what Italy actually planned is that it overlapped with plans for powers (Germany, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria) that it had no way of bending to its will, especially in Yugoslavia and Greece. In areas where there were no overlapping claims, then the full Italian ambitions make sense to be shown, but Germany had ambitions in Serbia and Croatia (hence the northern part of Croatia was under German influence) and Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria all had their own ambitions that Italy was essentially powerless to stop (Italy wasn't about to go to war with any of those powers over Yugoslavia or Greece; once Italy had control of the Adriatic and most of the eastern Mediterranean then Italy was going to be satisfied).
EDIT: And of course by 1943 things had changed quite a bit, since Bulgaria was then occupying much of Serbia on behalf of Germany since Germany needed the manpower elsewhere:
I wouldn't expect that was the planned state of affairs for either Germany or Bulgaria though, but more like a temporary expediency, so the original map with Serbia is what was initially executed and planned.
Okay, sure, but then what about Egypt? I'm pretty sure Italy's long-term plan was to annex it, not just have a puppet state. Same with Albania, which you showed with a different color
I'm basing it off the the maps on the first page.
Italy's long term plans versus medium term plans probably requires two maps (as would all Axis nation plans). As far as I'm aware Italy's plans for Albania were exactly what they did in OTL - set up a country in personal union with Italy and for all practically purposes governed from Italy. Despite annexing areas such as Dalmatia from Yugoslavia and having a pliant Albania totally under their control, they never pushed for formal annexation at any point. Making it a part of Italy seemed to be super-long-term plans.
Added Brazil and Argentina. Some of the Nazis' long-term goals included the political penetration and support of the Integralists in Brazil and far-right nationalists in Argentina, both countries which also have notable German populations.
Don't have much to add on to this, but I cleaned up the border colors a bit since some of them used the coast color, and others used a border color. They should all use the border color now.
I also added borders to the unclaimed areas (they're just 1942 OTL borders), and colored two islands in the Azores/Canaries and an island off the coast of China that were still "unclaimed." I would've done the same for Japanese Siberia, but I left it because it didn't seem as obvious as the others (maybe they were left for a rump Soviet Union or something).
damein fisher
Banned
Someone should add that stuff we learned about the plan to give land back to the native americans
Anybody else think it wouldn't hurt to show territories with overlapping claims as striped?