I live in Knoxville, and I can tell you Tennessee is bipolar when it comes to the weather. The whole Upper South (Tennessee, North Carolina, Kentucky, etc.) gets some crazy weather patterns from both North and South since we're sandwich in the middle. Hot one day, freezing the next. Where I live, the Mountains get a lot the snow so we don't get too much, but sometimes, it is like an snowstorm like no other.
Photos from Featherston's Confederacy/ TL-191
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I live in Knoxville, and I can tell you Tennessee is bipolar when it comes to the weather. The whole Upper South (Tennessee, North Carolina, Kentucky, etc.) gets some crazy weather patterns from both North and South since we're sandwich in the middle. Hot one day, freezing the next. Where I live, the Mountains get a lot the snow so we don't get too much, but sometimes, it is like an snowstorm like no other.
Wasn't the fighting pretty much done in Tennessee by 1944? Unless you count a Freedom Party insurgency.
Postcard of the Robert E. Lee Monument in Richmond. Possibly one of the most revived monuments within the Confederacy, many within the CSA and overseas came to visit the statue of the great war hero of Dixieland who won the South its independence. Rallies would often take place in front of it, as in other monuments and memorials. (Such as the Freedom Party.)
The Robert E. Lee Monument would suffered damage during the Second Great War, visited by La Follette and Morrell, and later taken by Union soldiers, taking its place within an Museum Philadelphia alongside other 'war loot'.
The Robert E. Lee Monument would suffered damage during the Second Great War, visited by La Follette and Morrell, and later taken by Union soldiers, taking its place within an Museum Philadelphia alongside other 'war loot'.
Knocked out American tank, ealry 1944.
I view this to be more of a Confederate barrel. I like to imagine that some of the army roundels that the Confederate army uses it the "Bonnie Blue Flag", but more square in shape and the star being bigger.
In this case, the roundel is in a white circle, but perhaps there would be some kind of variation.
Eh, true. I can edit it. And I actually love the 'Bonnie Blue Flag' they put on they barrels.
Confederate Soldier During the First Great War
Upper Left: Confederate National Flag
Upper Right: Confederate Battle/War Flag
Soldier is wearing a Brodie Helmet and has a Tredegar rifle.
Confederate Soldier during the Second Great War
Upper Left: Emblem of the Confederate Army under Featherston's Confederacy; based on the Bonnie Blue Flag. It was often used as a type of roundel for C.S. barrels and planes.
Upper Right: Flag of the Confederate States of America during Featherston's rule. It is also the same flag of the Confederate Freedom Party.
Soldier is wearing a Sydenham Helmet and has a Thompson submachine gun.
Source:
https://www.hardheadveterans.com/pages/evolution-of-the-combat-helmet
Upper Left: Confederate National Flag
Upper Right: Confederate Battle/War Flag
Soldier is wearing a Brodie Helmet and has a Tredegar rifle.
Confederate Soldier during the Second Great War
Upper Left: Emblem of the Confederate Army under Featherston's Confederacy; based on the Bonnie Blue Flag. It was often used as a type of roundel for C.S. barrels and planes.
Upper Right: Flag of the Confederate States of America during Featherston's rule. It is also the same flag of the Confederate Freedom Party.
Soldier is wearing a Sydenham Helmet and has a Thompson submachine gun.
Source:
https://www.hardheadveterans.com/pages/evolution-of-the-combat-helmet
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Oooh, nice pictures! Its interesting to note how much monarchies still play a role in TL-191.
So I posted about this in another thread, but here's a small thought --- what is the likelihood of the iconic French M1914 Hotchkiss Machine Gun being either butterflied away or finding use with the US Army? And for that matter, how likely is it that the cars and tanks produced by this company would be butterflied away or find use with the US Army in TL-191?
I'll explain...
Here are links to the American that founded the company in France that would eventually produce the guns, tanks, and cars we know of now - Benjamin B. Hotchkiss.
- Benjamin B. Hotchkiss
- Hotchkiss M1914
- Hotchkiss H35 Cavalry Tank
- Hotchkiss Luxury Cars - 1903 to 1955
- Hotchkiss et Cie
So, Hotchkiss was born in Connecticut in 1826. When he got older he was employed as a gunmaker working on pistols and rifles in the 1850s and it looks like he managed to patent various projectile designs used for rifled artillery that were used in the Civil War. Now, Hotchkiss was employed by the US Government during the Civil War and seemed to be a man that worked for the cause of the Union as much as a business man could in those days. After the Civil War the US Government now longer required his services in a time of peace, so he moved to France to found his own munitions factory and company. He died in 1885, but his company lived on to help produce weapons for the French Military.
Now, what I'm asking is that, given that changes in TL-191 occur during the War of Secession, is it possible that after the war the US government would still no longer require his services? Would he still move to France to found his company there or would he still remain in the US to create his company here? Or perhaps he never got to create his company and as a result the weapons never to be used either by the French or US?
To be fair the original design of the Hotchkiss machine gun was created by an Austrian / Austro-Hungarian Army officer named Baron Adolf Odkolek von Ujezda from Vienna, but the designs and patents were purchased by Hotchkiss et Cie and resulting improvements of the design they made created the gun we now see today.
For me, I think it would be a pretty interesting butterfly effect if Hotchkiss never went to France and founded his company there, but perhaps removing him and his company from the French Arms Industry is unlikely.
I've never seen him or his company's creations being brought up so watcha guys think?
^^^ --- Would these get butterflied away or find use as exclusively US / Central Powers weaponry?
I'll explain...
Here are links to the American that founded the company in France that would eventually produce the guns, tanks, and cars we know of now - Benjamin B. Hotchkiss.
- Benjamin B. Hotchkiss
- Hotchkiss M1914
- Hotchkiss H35 Cavalry Tank
- Hotchkiss Luxury Cars - 1903 to 1955
- Hotchkiss et Cie
So, Hotchkiss was born in Connecticut in 1826. When he got older he was employed as a gunmaker working on pistols and rifles in the 1850s and it looks like he managed to patent various projectile designs used for rifled artillery that were used in the Civil War. Now, Hotchkiss was employed by the US Government during the Civil War and seemed to be a man that worked for the cause of the Union as much as a business man could in those days. After the Civil War the US Government now longer required his services in a time of peace, so he moved to France to found his own munitions factory and company. He died in 1885, but his company lived on to help produce weapons for the French Military.
Now, what I'm asking is that, given that changes in TL-191 occur during the War of Secession, is it possible that after the war the US government would still no longer require his services? Would he still move to France to found his company there or would he still remain in the US to create his company here? Or perhaps he never got to create his company and as a result the weapons never to be used either by the French or US?
To be fair the original design of the Hotchkiss machine gun was created by an Austrian / Austro-Hungarian Army officer named Baron Adolf Odkolek von Ujezda from Vienna, but the designs and patents were purchased by Hotchkiss et Cie and resulting improvements of the design they made created the gun we now see today.
For me, I think it would be a pretty interesting butterfly effect if Hotchkiss never went to France and founded his company there, but perhaps removing him and his company from the French Arms Industry is unlikely.
I've never seen him or his company's creations being brought up so watcha guys think?
^^^ --- Would these get butterflied away or find use as exclusively US / Central Powers weaponry?
I don’t think that the US would use the Hotchkiss machine gun. A belt-fed MG is just better for sustaining high rates of fire longer.
Can it not be modified to use a belt fed system then?
I put this on the "Filling the Gaps" thread too.
So! For those that were interested in the currency and who was on them, apparently Thomas Brackett Reed was president in TL-191 and actually got his face minted on the US half-dollar coin by the time of the Great War in 1914.
^^^ --- In this timeline, according to his wiki article, he was particularly notable for vehemently supporting the Republic of Haiti's independence, entering into a treaty with Haiti to protect the country and prevent from being invaded from any possible Confederate invasion. He was apparently a fervent advocate of the Remembrance Ideology in the United States. He is thought to have served as President from 1897-1902 and is likely the next president after Alfred Thayer Mahan.
^^^ --- Alfred Thayer Mahan served as President from 1889-1897, for two terms. According to his wiki article, Mahan was seen as one of the United States' best presidents in TL-191, most notably for forcing the Confederates to abandon plans to build a canal through Nicaragua. He still had a background as a naval officers and an educator by the time he took office.
While it is vague or unknown to me how he managed to get the Confederacy to back down from building the canal, taking hints from his background in naval matters I'd say there was possibly some military force behind that, particularly anything to do with the US Navy, which he no doubt would have been advocating to build up in the aftermath of the Second Mexican War.
So! For those that were interested in the currency and who was on them, apparently Thomas Brackett Reed was president in TL-191 and actually got his face minted on the US half-dollar coin by the time of the Great War in 1914.
^^^ --- In this timeline, according to his wiki article, he was particularly notable for vehemently supporting the Republic of Haiti's independence, entering into a treaty with Haiti to protect the country and prevent from being invaded from any possible Confederate invasion. He was apparently a fervent advocate of the Remembrance Ideology in the United States. He is thought to have served as President from 1897-1902 and is likely the next president after Alfred Thayer Mahan.
^^^ --- Alfred Thayer Mahan served as President from 1889-1897, for two terms. According to his wiki article, Mahan was seen as one of the United States' best presidents in TL-191, most notably for forcing the Confederates to abandon plans to build a canal through Nicaragua. He still had a background as a naval officers and an educator by the time he took office.
While it is vague or unknown to me how he managed to get the Confederacy to back down from building the canal, taking hints from his background in naval matters I'd say there was possibly some military force behind that, particularly anything to do with the US Navy, which he no doubt would have been advocating to build up in the aftermath of the Second Mexican War.
While it is possible for this to occur, there are some problems for the order of succession.
The books never explicitly state what years did Mahan and Reed serve their presidencies. The author of those Turtledove articles is pretty much making an educated guess for their terms in office. Reed died in 1902 in OTL. Besides that, the article assumes that Mahan became president before Reed. That's too early for a Navy man like Mahan to go into politics and gain enough influence to become president. This would affect the publication of his book The Influence of Sea Power Upon History: 1660–1783. Instead, I tend to view Reed becoming president from 1889 to 1897 and Mahan president from 1897 to 1905. This would allow for his Navy book to still be published and for Reed to still die in 1902. Admittidely, this would cause an 8-year gap of a presidency to be left up to the imagination of fans until the election of 1912, when Roosevelt won.
However, if we allow Reed to serve from 1897 to 1902, but allow Mahan to still become president after Reed's death then this would happen: Mahan would serve out Reed's remaining term from 1902 until the 1904 U.S. presidential election. Let's assume that he wins his own term in the 1904 election. If we also assume that he wins own second term in the 1908 election, that makes his total terms last from 1902-1913. That's 11 years! Since we know that Roosevelt ran for re-election in 1916, it is logical to assume that he was the next president after Mahan.
As nice as this may sound, I doubt that Mahan would have gone for what was technically a third term as President of the U.S.. Mahan died in 1914 OTL and I wonder if the stress of the presidency would have cut his life shorter.
Well, whenever the two served, its clear to me that they made some lasting impressions on the United States during its run up to the Great War.
For Mahan, whenever he actually served as president, I still imagine that he contributed significantly to the importance of the United States Navy. If not its physical growth in the aftermath of the Second Mexican War, then at least to harnessing its potential as a means to put his naval theories to practice. Either way you spin, I firmly believe Mahan would have done quite a bit to support the US Navy during his presidency.
For Reed, well, that's not so clear to me! But if vowing to ensure that Haiti remains an independent nation to protect against Confederate attacks gets you on the half-dollor coin, then he must have been quite a big deal
Confederate children performing the Freedom Fist, ca. 1940
Confederate citizens performing the Freedom Fist, somewhere in Texas, ca. 1936.
This photograph was used for a newspaper in Spain that described the display of loyalty to
Confederate President Jacob Featherston.
Confederate factory workers in Alabama performing the Freedom Fist, ca. 1938
Confederate cadets performing the Freedom Fist, ca. late 1930's
Conscripted Confederate soldiers in civilian clothing performing the Freedom Fist, ca. 1940
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Confederate children performing the Freedom Fist, ca. 1940
Confederate citizens performing the Freedom Fist, somewhere in Texas, ca. 1936.
This photograph was used for a newspaper in Spain that described the display of loyalty to
Confederate President Jacob Featherston.
Confederate factory workers in Alabama performing the Freedom Fist, ca. 1938
Confederate cadets performing the Freedom Fist, ca. late 1930's
Conscripted Confederate soldiers in civilian clothing performing the Freedom Fist, ca. 1940
Heh, nice catch with these pictures here. They're taken from the OTL Spanish Civil War, but using one's imagination I can totally see this being how Confederates in the south do the Featherston Fist salute. Pictures like this add a sense of believability and a good visualization of certain things.
National Personifications --- TL-191 -- The Confederacy's Personifications
@Allochronian @Historyman 14 @pattontank12 @cortz#9
Okay guys, here's a fun one. So, the United States has Columbia and Uncle Sam. The United Kingdom has Britannia and John Bull. The Russian Empire has Mother Russia. France has Marianne. See where I'm going with this? They're all the personifications of their respective countries in some way or another. In the United States' case Uncle Sam is more representative of the government of the US, while Columbia herself is more representative of the country as a whole.
You see them and other national personifications in many things - propaganda, political cartoons, advertisements, media, and so on. Seems that every major country had some kind of national personification of their nation at one point or another.
So, that's my question - what would be the national personification(s) of the Confederate States of America? What would be the iconic symbols and look of the Confederacy represented in propaganda and political cartoons and such. Would they be a man or a woman or both? What would their names be? What would they look like?
^^^ --- Columbia - Female personification of the United States.
^^^ --- Britannia, female personification of Great Britain.
^^^ --- Marianne (France), Britannia (Great Britain), and Mother Russia (Russian Empire).
^^^ --- Mother Britannia shakes hands with Daughter Columbia.
^^^ --- Uncle Sam and John Bull portrayed in cartoons and propaganda.
^^^ --- Various iterations of John Bull and Marianne.
^^^ --- Personification of the short lived Second Spanish Republic (1931-1939)
So that's the question guys. What would a male and female personification of the Confederacy look like? And what would be there names?
@Allochronian @Historyman 14 @pattontank12 @cortz#9
Okay guys, here's a fun one. So, the United States has Columbia and Uncle Sam. The United Kingdom has Britannia and John Bull. The Russian Empire has Mother Russia. France has Marianne. See where I'm going with this? They're all the personifications of their respective countries in some way or another. In the United States' case Uncle Sam is more representative of the government of the US, while Columbia herself is more representative of the country as a whole.
You see them and other national personifications in many things - propaganda, political cartoons, advertisements, media, and so on. Seems that every major country had some kind of national personification of their nation at one point or another.
So, that's my question - what would be the national personification(s) of the Confederate States of America? What would be the iconic symbols and look of the Confederacy represented in propaganda and political cartoons and such. Would they be a man or a woman or both? What would their names be? What would they look like?
^^^ --- Columbia - Female personification of the United States.
^^^ --- Britannia, female personification of Great Britain.
^^^ --- Marianne (France), Britannia (Great Britain), and Mother Russia (Russian Empire).
^^^ --- Mother Britannia shakes hands with Daughter Columbia.
^^^ --- Uncle Sam and John Bull portrayed in cartoons and propaganda.
^^^ --- Various iterations of John Bull and Marianne.
^^^ --- Personification of the short lived Second Spanish Republic (1931-1939)
So that's the question guys. What would a male and female personification of the Confederacy look like? And what would be there names?
i'd imagine the Confederacy's national personification would be the ironically-named Lady Freedom, which would play well into the Freedom Party later; if nothing else, she'd work as a decent Southern parallel to Lady Liberty. there's probably some Classical deity who could be used as the basic model (like how Lady Liberty is ultimately the Roman goddess Libertas) but i don't know which that would be off the top of my head
There is actually something like this on an banknote from 1862.
Dixie striking down the North.
I think an good female personification of the Confederacy would be an Ceres/ Minerva/Liberty looking woman.
An male would be George Washington himself.
All of these are very good references and models for a female personification of the Confederacy. And I like the fact that the focus is on Roman or Greek deities as a possible source based what is used in banknotes and such. It also matches up with what the South might actually do in terms of that kind of thing too. They'd want something that looks noble and righteous and such, their own version of Lady Liberty, but different than that of the United States' Columbia (name her Dixie??).
Actually, another source would be from the Virginia Seal and Coat of Arms.
^^^ --- It is said that the woman is supposed to be the Roman virtue of "Virtus" on the obverse side, battle ready and victorious. She would represent valor and courage - the willingness to fight tyranny and the spirt to protect the state.
^^^ --- On the reverse side we have three Roman goddesses - Libertas, Ceres, and Aeternitas. Ceres represents agriculture, while Libertas is for in liberty and Aeternitas is for eternity - essentially prosperity and peace for Virginia.
In fact, since you guys already mentioned the goddesses Ceres and Libertas already, it is very interesting to note that they are represented here as well, so I think it lends some good reasons as to where the Confederacy might get its female personification.
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