Good luck with your April. Thank you for squeezing this in for your readers, it was an interesting read.
By the way though, the chapter is not threadmarked yet.
The Footprint of Mussolini - TL
Good luck with your April. Thank you for squeezing this in for your readers, it was an interesting read.
By the way though, the chapter is not threadmarked yet.
Speaking of which, while in my History Lecture, I did learn of the Gouzenko Affair. Does that still happen?
Igor Gouzenko was a Soviet Intlligence Officer stationed in the Soviet Embassy in Canada working as a Cipher Clerk, it wasn't until he defected in 1945 that he revealed that the Soviets were spying in the US, UK and Canada during WW2. Thus this was one of the events that led to the Cold War. I can see Wallace's popularity plummet once this happens, since the so-called Soviet Allies had been secretly spying behind their allies back.
Igor Gouzenko was a Soviet Intlligence Officer stationed in the Soviet Embassy in Canada working as a Cipher Clerk, it wasn't until he defected in 1945 that he revealed that the Soviets were spying in the US, UK and Canada during WW2. Thus this was one of the events that led to the Cold War. I can see Wallace's popularity plummet once this happens, since the so-called Soviet Allies had been secretly spying behind their allies back.
Thomas Wilkins
Banned
When will the public learn of Wallace's concessions to Stalin? Do we have to wait for the press to find out?
Bookmark1995
Banned
I imagine when those revelations do come out, Wallace will be seen as, if not the worst President, then the biggest idiot ever to sit in the Oval Office.
Dolan
Banned
You know how it will go down even worse? Have Wallace, in all his idiocy, end up thinking that taking a refuge at Moscow would be a great idea.
Thomas Wilkins
Banned
Since it is aforementioned that there will be an election between Patton and Wallace, here's a map I made:
Well my first question would be, with the Tories having gained their razor thin majority here, what will they do with it? Where does the United Kingdom go from here? The Empire too.
I expect this to be the highpoint for the BUF here.
So basically any Wehrmacht members not part of the Nuremburg trials got a pass. Ouch, that will leave some scars on both the allies reputation and German relationships. But Churchill and De Gaulle's attitudes make sense. With the Americans abandoning them they need to revive German military might not just against the Soviets but to ensure the Fascist blocks influence will be contained. The Arsenal of Democracy requires German Arms ITTL.
And so ends Patton's career in the US military for now at least. Since he isn't referred to as President Patton during Truman's hearing I am wondering if he does make it to the highest office. This is Patton though, so who knows what he might do after this. Still in this courtroom at least he seem vindicated by history.
So, Joe rears his hateful head. So the 40s will see America getting hurt by the Left under Wallace, and the Right behind this jerk eh?
I expect this to be the highpoint for the BUF here.
So basically any Wehrmacht members not part of the Nuremburg trials got a pass. Ouch, that will leave some scars on both the allies reputation and German relationships. But Churchill and De Gaulle's attitudes make sense. With the Americans abandoning them they need to revive German military might not just against the Soviets but to ensure the Fascist blocks influence will be contained. The Arsenal of Democracy requires German Arms ITTL.
And so ends Patton's career in the US military for now at least. Since he isn't referred to as President Patton during Truman's hearing I am wondering if he does make it to the highest office. This is Patton though, so who knows what he might do after this. Still in this courtroom at least he seem vindicated by history.
So, Joe rears his hateful head. So the 40s will see America getting hurt by the Left under Wallace, and the Right behind this jerk eh?
Bookmark1995
Banned
Since it is aforementioned that there will be an election between Patton and Wallace, here's a map I made:
Pretty good map. My only point of contention is that it is likely that Thurmond or some other Southern Democrat might have done their own third party run out of disgust for Wallace. Or if Wallace pushes for a strong civil rights plank in his Presidency.
So it is likely Wallace doesn't win ANY states, and has the worse party performance of any major party candidate since Hoover or Taft.
Interesting, the dates here. Suggests there will be a game changer in Post War Europe in 1949. Given the McCarthy hearing is going on in May of 1949 my guess is this year would mark Wallace's fall and America's re-commitment to Europe. A move that would greatly change the power dynamics for all factions.
A lot can happen in four years.
On the bright side, if the delusional lefty morons and the arrogant extreme right-wing blowhards have it out in the 50s and 60s, the populace itself will not get dragged into the argument and we might actually see sane and intelligent political discourse in the States by the 21st century, with anyone with extreme views painted as 'another McCarthy' or 'another Wallace'.
It could. But the most plausible alternative to the two current parties would be the kind of party helmed by someone whose name rhymes with Brom Gurmond. Or, more optimistically, Independent Eisenhower.
Patton is going to be loved in Europe when this gets out. In addition to his military deeds and rep during the war, he was willing to get sacked rather than not call Wallace the backstabber out on his BS. I could see Churchill chuckling and jokingly wondering if Patton would be willing to follow John Paul Jones example.
It could also help America's reputation in general in Free Europe, this high profile falling pt making many see Wallace's policies as not representing the desires of all American leaders.
As for future politics I would not count on the two party system breaking down. It could happen but major shake ups in their leadership seem more likely.
MacArthur of course could turn to seeking the highest office down the line, it seems as de facto "Shogun" he will be even more high profile and successful ITTL. His next 'return' speech may be too the American peopel directly.
It could also help America's reputation in general in Free Europe, this high profile falling pt making many see Wallace's policies as not representing the desires of all American leaders.
As for future politics I would not count on the two party system breaking down. It could happen but major shake ups in their leadership seem more likely.
MacArthur of course could turn to seeking the highest office down the line, it seems as de facto "Shogun" he will be even more high profile and successful ITTL. His next 'return' speech may be too the American peopel directly.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I have a mixed outlook on a presidency by either of those two.
On the one hand, they were competent military generals, and their sheer popularity means that have an excellent mandate if they became president.
On the other hand...well, they were abusive, arrogant assholes. Having them in the Oval Office during the Cold War means the Doomsday Clock is often nearing midnight.
Me too. Normally I'd even say flatly Patton wouldn't want to be POTUS in the first place. And MacArthur fell short of such things for a reason OTL.
But things seem to set to get WEIRD in America. It may be more picking what can be survived rather than what is good for the time being.
Also anyone else amused at Patton getting slapped given the famous incident OTL? I have to credit Patton for not trying to layout Wallace after that, in this case Patton really did restrain himself.
Heh, I wonder if ITTL we could see a character like Cotton Hill in media? The thought of such a fellow speaking is mind on Wallace makes me chuckle.
It will probably happen even ITTL, with 'Uncle Joe' going in hyperparanoid mood many people stationed away will feel a dread sense of deja-vu and survival instinc will start to assert itself...so i expect a lot of agents (in the relative terms naturally aka at most a dozen) try to strike a deal and defect and taking a lot of secrets with them.
The real deal is if the British (or the other european powers) decide to share intelligence with the americans due to the current political situation, plus there is VENONA (an UK-USA collaboration), the project started in OTL 43 so i don't know if ITTL happen or maybe is more an old continent affair; the same for the end of the american nuclear collaboration with the British, due to Wallance stance it can create a bigger diplomatic mess than OTL.
Finally, speaking of spies...well it's not that the UK, at least in OTL, had not a problem with them and the famous Cambridge fives were just a group; there is the risk that they will go undetected for longer than OTL, after all, they are 'good old boys' coming from the right background and will have surely outlived that silly ideology from their younger days as everyone else
.Honestly, if one of them become president, they will do more damage at the office than Wallace...they were good military men but awfull politicians and frankly McArthur presidency can be Trump 70 years earlier
And this don't make things look well for the USA; frankly with the old alcholic bastard having more power and fame...i will feel much more safer in Italy during Benny regime
Good chapter there @Sorairo thanks for squeezing that into your month.
Seems to me that there is turbulent times ahead for the US. Lets hope it does not go to far to either extreme. I could see 3rd parties doing well in the next election round though.
No Labour does not mean no social reforms in the UK, I seem to remember they committed to some reforms in the '45 manifesto, though obviously not as far as Labour's plans. I suspect by '49-50 Churchill will be looking to pass on the Premiership to a successor ready for an election fight, once they might lose if Bevan is clever. I suspect a lot might rely on events in India.
If Churchill is smart (and he is) he transitions India to a Dominion as fast as possible as keeping her as a colony in the Empire was never going to work. Dominion status allowing Self Rule might mollify the Independence movement somewhat, esp with a more bellicose, violent USSR/China to the north.
Seems to me that there is turbulent times ahead for the US. Lets hope it does not go to far to either extreme. I could see 3rd parties doing well in the next election round though.
No Labour does not mean no social reforms in the UK, I seem to remember they committed to some reforms in the '45 manifesto, though obviously not as far as Labour's plans. I suspect by '49-50 Churchill will be looking to pass on the Premiership to a successor ready for an election fight, once they might lose if Bevan is clever. I suspect a lot might rely on events in India.
If Churchill is smart (and he is) he transitions India to a Dominion as fast as possible as keeping her as a colony in the Empire was never going to work. Dominion status allowing Self Rule might mollify the Independence movement somewhat, esp with a more bellicose, violent USSR/China to the north.
Well, John Tyler died in the Confederate States of America....after voting for Secession.
SO if Wallace can be worse than that, i'd be surprised.
Since it is aforementioned that there will be an election between Patton and Wallace, here's a map I made:
I kinda want Dewey to be his running mate for some reason. If that is actually possible.
Well, the second part started indeed with great fireworks!
And so, it dies the PCI. Paradoxally, I have the feeling TTL Mussolini would feel pity for Togliatti - a threat in less for him and Italy, but still, well, is something too much even for his standards. The Italian newspapers would have a field day and the Minculpop won't even have to nudge for it. At the same time, ITTL Italy will stand largely majority conservative even if a democratic process would start later. Especially with a PNF which would surely survive till present day.
Churchill won, good news for Britain and the Empire in those times, considering that the US are not the best friend around, and couldn't count on a Marshall Plan. So France as well.
I wonder, Guderian was captured or died during the war? If the former, was court martialled? Because, as he was the one who crushed the Valkirie resistance in Berlin, and stood with the new nazi leadership, he should be considered "tainted". But if he wasn't at Nuremberg, he was then considered to be put in the Wehrmacht trials...
Touché.
And so, it dies the PCI. Paradoxally, I have the feeling TTL Mussolini would feel pity for Togliatti - a threat in less for him and Italy, but still, well, is something too much even for his standards. The Italian newspapers would have a field day and the Minculpop won't even have to nudge for it. At the same time, ITTL Italy will stand largely majority conservative even if a democratic process would start later. Especially with a PNF which would surely survive till present day.
Churchill won, good news for Britain and the Empire in those times, considering that the US are not the best friend around, and couldn't count on a Marshall Plan. So France as well.
I wonder, Guderian was captured or died during the war? If the former, was court martialled? Because, as he was the one who crushed the Valkirie resistance in Berlin, and stood with the new nazi leadership, he should be considered "tainted". But if he wasn't at Nuremberg, he was then considered to be put in the Wehrmacht trials...
Touché.
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