TL-191 Uniform, weapons and equipment of the Secondary Combatants.

Marc Pasquin

Marc Pasquin

Alterwright said:
Yes, I agree. With the drastic changes in government in both Britain and France, there would definitely be pro-fascist/revaunchist style para-military groups integrated into the armies of both countries. If not paramilitary, then actual units in the army. @pattontank12 and I have referred to the French Vichy uniforms and British BUF uniforms for such an "evil" look.

^^^ --- the uniforms of the Milice Francaise are a good start for that kind of look for France if you need examples from OTL. You'd need to remove the Milice insignia for something more pro-royalist however.
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France is said to be ruled by the Action Francaise, a real world organisation which used the symbol below.

insigne_de_la_ligue.jpg


Its "militia" OTL, les camelots du roi, didn't really wear a uniform though they did wear some variants of the lapel pin below, the exact colour/metal combination indicating rank

camelotduroi.jpg
 
Allochronian

Allochronian

pattontank12 said:
So Soundwave3591 just released his take Actionist France's barrels.
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I'll comment on the barrel art some other time.

For now, what really interests me is what the flag of the Kingdom of France would look like. From what I've read, the last time France was a monarchy, it chose the French Tricolor as its flag. That's interesting because out of all the three main groups of contenders to the French throne, it is the Legitimists who refuse to use this flag, preferring to use the Bourbon Restoration Flag or any flag from before the French Revolution. The most likely group that does take over France and make it into a monarchy again is the Orléanists. I think they were okay with using the tricolor flag and a Constitutional Monarchy, but I wish that they would have used the flags that contain the fleur-de-lys. Maybe some kind of unique fusion of the older and newer flags was made and chosen for the restored kingdom.

c2d4e209e297e09eef9b14892262f0a2.jpg

*Flag of the Kingdom of France that was used before the French Revolution. Legitimists would want this flag. (I like it, too)


kingdom_of_france_by_gouachevalier-dbgja7l.png

Made by Henri V as a compromise between Royalists and Republicans. Orleanists would be okay with this.


1280px-Flag_of_France.svg.png

Flag of France during the July Monarchy. This is the main flag that the Orleanists chose as a flag for the Kingdom of France between 1830-1848.

*During the Bourbon Restoration after Napoleon Bonaparte, the Flag was either this one or a completely white one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Pretenders_to_the_French_throne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Monarchy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_France#Kingdom_of_France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri,_Count_of_Chambord
 
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Alterwright

Alterwright

cortz#9 said:
Yeah I imagined them throwing more money at the military to win them over.
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You think these would be on par with Imperial German tanks then? Or perhaps even superior? What's the crew layout like? I know French crew layouts were a bit peculiar. Not many men in the turret and such?
 

cortz#9

Alterwright said:
You think these would be on par with Imperial German tanks then? Or perhaps even superior? What's the crew layout like? I know French crew layouts were a bit peculiar. Not many men in the turret and such?
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I imagine the German tanks being a little better but not by much, the French would've been spying on them and learning about things like sloped armour and such.
 

Tiro

Allochronian said:
For now, what really interests me is what the flag of the Kingdom of France would look like.
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My guess is that the regime of Charles XI would use the Fleur de Lys as the Royal Standard while the Tricolour remained the National Flag - I keep trying to work out a quip in the vein of Henri IVs "Paris is worth a mass" but the best I've come up with so far is "My kingdom is worth the flag, so long as we do not fly away with it" which might not be quite on-point.


Allochronian said:
Made by Henri V as a compromise between Royalists and Republicans. Orleanists would be okay with this.
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Not a bad compromise - removing the crown would make this very much in the vein of the Kingdom of Italy's national flag, which proved quite workable (You know, I really should post my ideas for Charles XI over on FILLING THE GAPS but I keep stumbling over my own lazy bones!).:biggrin:
 
Marc Pasquin

Marc Pasquin

Allochronian said:
For now, what really interests me is what the flag of the Kingdom of France would look like.
Click to expand...

A few possibilities:

1- france, for different purposes, had used in the past flags that had a semy of fleur-de-lys on a field that was either blue, white or red so one possibility would be to combine the then current french flag by having a semy over the 3 fields of colour

fr-AF1.png



2- a bit more radical could be to change the colour of the fleur-de-lys on the left and right end to blue and red so as to recall the french flag but still make it obviously monarchist dominant.

fr-AF2.png


3- one last possibility and the most straightforward one is to have the french tricolore defaced in the central band with the AF symbol I posted previously.

fr-AF3.png
 
Marc Pasquin

Marc Pasquin

Tiro said:
My guess is that the regime of Charles XI would use the Fleur de Lys as the Royal Standard while the Tricolour remained the National Flag - I keep trying to work out a quip in the vein of Henri IVs "Paris is worth a mass" but the best I've come up with so far is "My kingdom is worth the flag, so long as we do not fly away with it" which might not be quite on-point.
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"Mon Royaume vaut bien la peine de voir mes sujets saluer un haillon"

"My kingdom is well worth the sorrow of seeing my subjects saluting a rag"
 

rvbomally

Marc Pasquin said:
A few possibilities:

1- france, for different purposes, had used in the past flags that had a semy of fleur-de-lys on a field that was either blue, white or red so one possibility would be to combine the then current french flag by having a semy over the 3 fields of colour

View attachment 447241


2- a bit more radical could be to change the colour of the fleur-de-lys on the left and right end to blue and red so as to recall the french flag but still make it obviously monarchist dominant.

View attachment 447245

3- one last possibility and the most straightforward one is to have the french tricolore defaced in the central band with the AF symbol I posted previously.

View attachment 447246
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The French would avoid using a white or mostly-white flag because it has become an international symbol of surrender. Not only does that have poor political implications for a revanchist regime, but it’s also confusing on the battlefield. It’s for this reason that the OTL Confederacy changed its flag from a white flag with the cross in the canton, to the same design with a red bar on the side.
 
Alterwright

Alterwright

rvbomally said:
The French would avoid using a white or mostly-white flag because it has become an international symbol of surrender. Not only does that have poor political implications for a revanchist regime, but it’s also confusing on the battlefield. It’s for this reason that the OTL Confederacy changed its flag from a white flag with the cross in the canton, to the same design with a red bar on the side.
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Wouldn't the white color also be too reminiscent of the Ancien Regime?
 
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