TL-191 Uniform, weapons and equipment of the Secondary Combatants.

[rvbomally]

I have to disagree with you here, I think the Germans would see the possible future danger of Britain and especially France to want to get revenge at some point in the future and they may think the best defense is a good offense.
I don't think they would fall into a defense or Maginot line mentality.
Just MHO.

My thinking of why they’d reject that is the Schlieffen Plan’s failure. Germany tried an offensive strategy against the French during the Great War, and the French managed to stop them. In their mind, what did work is bleeding the French nation dry in attritional battles like Verdun. After all, they won after these massive meat grinder engagements.

They’d see the French as desiring revenge, but unwilling or unable to spend lives like they did during the Great War. The Germans themselves would be unwilling to fight such a war on their end, but that is where pre-built fortifications come handy. The Germans won the last war, so they want to fight the last war, which on the West means a defensive war.

That being said, I expect the Germans to want an offensive war against Russia. Or, a war of maneuver to drag the Russians into hostile Poland, the Baltics and Ukraine and bleed them out that way. They’d recognize Russia as the weakest of the Entente powers and want them knocked out first.

 

[cortz#9]

My thinking of why they’d reject that is the Schlieffen Plan’s failure. Germany tried an offensive strategy against the French during the Great War, and the French managed to stop them. In their mind, what did work is bleeding the French nation dry in attritional battles like Verdun. After all, they won after these massive meat grinder engagements.

They’d see the French as desiring revenge, but unwilling or unable to spend lives like they did during the Great War. The Germans themselves would be unwilling to fight such a war on their end, but that is where pre-built fortifications come handy. The Germans won the last war, so they want to fight the last war, which on the West means a defensive war.

I see where you're coming from and I can't prove your wrong but I think the Germans would be concerned about both France and Great Britain joining up against them and they may believe that armoured vehicles will give them the ability to make the Schiefflen plan work this time around.
I could be wrong but I really don't think the Germans would plan on holding off France and Britain with just a defensive military doctrine. Perhaps they would plan on holding them defensively at first, especially if they fear Russia would join in with the Allies again but they would still plan on turning on France once Russia was dealt with.

Anyways I don't want to turn this into an argument, I respect your opinion and we could both be partially right and wrong, hard to say with alt history.
Would like to hear what others think.

 

[Alterwright]

Another picture done by Soundwave3591 on DeviantArt --- https://www.deviantart.com/soundwave3591

This time around, we have an interpretation of equipment and weapons for the Ottoman Empire in the Second Great War. There are some recognizable models here, some of which are likely German made tanks.

Full picture here --- >>> https://www.deviantart.com/soundwave3591/art/TL191-Ottoman-Empire-Second-Great-War-788266670

 

[rvbomally]

I see where you're coming from and I can't prove your wrong but I think the Germans would be concerned about both France and Great Britain joining up against them and they may believe that armoured vehicles will give them the ability to make the Schiefflen plan work this time around.
I could be wrong but I really don't think the Germans would plan on holding off France and Britain with just a defensive military doctrine. Perhaps they would plan on holding them defensively at first, especially if they fear Russia would join in with the Allies again but they would still plan on turning on France once Russia was dealt with.

Anyways I don't want to turn this into an argument, I respect your opinion and we could both be partially right and wrong, hard to say with alt history.
Would like to hear what others think.

Of course, I’m not arguing, and I see the innovators in the German high command seeing things that way. However, I think that my suggestion opens up more possibilities with alternate German designs instead of just using the OTL Wehrmacht ones. It also doesn’t mean that the Germans would never go on the offensive; I pictured them developing more offensively-oriented forces down the line, possibly with inspiration from the Americans.

I’d also love to hear what others have to say.

Another picture done by Soundwave3591 on DeviantArt --- https://www.deviantart.com/soundwave3591

This time around, we have an interpretation of equipment and weapons for the Ottoman Empire in the Second Great War. There are some recognizable models here, some of which are likely German made tanks.

Full picture here --- >>> https://www.deviantart.com/soundwave3591/art/TL191-Ottoman-Empire-Second-Great-War-788266670

View attachment 444727

I love his work. Can’t wait for his Entente material.

 

[Alterwright]

I love his work. Can’t wait for his Entente material.

First time including soldiers too, which is a plus.

 

[rvbomally]

A possible Actionist French *Panther, designed to take down the new generation of German tanks and introduced in the middle of the SGW:

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/lorraine-40-t-c5d0df6304b24ddfa4e8ee13253a6d4b

 

[Alterwright]

Women in the Imperial Russian Army:

Its kind of a bummer for me to think that in this timeline women in the Russian Army will not be able to serve as widely as they did in OTL. Then again, perhaps that part of history would not be butter-flied away.

Some reference images of the Women's Battalion of Death are below, as well as some other pictures as to a possible Imperial Russian uniform for the women of the army.

^^^ --- French Adrian helmet in Imperial Russian use, WWI OTL.

 

[Alterwright]

A possible Actionist French *Panther, designed to take down the new generation of German tanks and introduced in the middle of the SGW:

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/lorraine-40-t-c5d0df6304b24ddfa4e8ee13253a6d4b

^^^ --- This one right? The Lorraine 40t?

 

[rvbomally]

View attachment 445064

^^^ --- This one right? The Lorraine 40t?

Yep. IOTL it was inspired by German and Soviet designs. ITTL I expect it to be inspired by American and Confederate designs.

 

[Alterwright]

Yep. IOTL it was inspired by German and Soviet designs. ITTL I expect it to be inspired by American and Confederate designs.

Oh! So this is a post war design?

 

[Historyman 14]

Women in the Imperial Russian Army:

Its kind of a bummer for me to think that in this timeline women in the Russian Army will not be able to serve as widely as they did in OTL. Then again, perhaps that part of history would not be butter-flied away.

Some reference images of the Women's Battalion of Death are below, as well as some other pictures as to a possible Imperial Russian uniform for the women of the army.

View attachment 445057

View attachment 445059

View attachment 445061

View attachment 445063

^^^ --- French Adrian helmet in Imperial Russian use, WWI OTL.

You probably get something of women in the Russian Army once the tide turns against the Russian Empire and things becomes desperate.

 

[rvbomally]

Oh! So this is a post war design?

No, a mid-war design. Something intended to give the Entente back the momentum it lost when it hit the Rhine. Consider how the OTL Panther was directly designed as a response to German experiences against the T-34.

 

[Alterwright]

You probably get something of women in the Russian Army once the tide turns against the Russian Empire and things becomes desperate.

Kinda like what they did in the First World War with the Death Battalion right? But on a larger scale? Yeah, that'd be cool honestly. Just saying it would be shame to see women in the Russian Army be taken out of the fighting entirely.

 

[rvbomally]

Some more ideas:

The Anglo-French offensive against Germany was named Plan Davout. It was intended to seize the Rhineland and cripple Germany’s industrial capacity. While the Entente succeeded, they did not cripple Germany. They miscalculated Russia’s ability to threaten Germany in the East, and Germany’s total war economy. They also never gained air supremacy like the OTL Allies, nor did they have strategic bombers to bomb German cities. Instead, they focused on tactical bombers and CAS, which helped them during Plan Davout but didn’t help in the strategic war.

 

[rvbomally]

And some idle thoughts on Entente combat uniforms:

The British and French have deliberately “evil” looking uniforms for their shock troops. Part of their strategy is terrifying Germany into a quick surrender, so having troops which look inhuman and intimidating is good.

The French, learning from their experience with soldier mutinies that lost them the Great War, have NKVD-style “blocking battalions” with orders to fire on French troops that retreat without permission. A lot of these guys get fragged in the end stages of the war.

 

[pattontank12]

You know Wolfenstein would actually be a good source for uniform inspiration for the United States during the 60-70's. Minus the more outlandish elements and nazi symbolism off course.

 

[Alterwright]

And some idle thoughts on Entente combat uniforms:

The British and French have deliberately “evil” looking uniforms for their shock troops. Part of their strategy is terrifying Germany into a quick surrender, so having troops which look inhuman and intimidating is good.

The French, learning from their experience with soldier mutinies that lost them the Great War, have NKVD-style “blocking battalions” with orders to fire on French troops that retreat without permission. A lot of these guys get fragged in the end stages of the war.

Yes, I agree. With the drastic changes in government in both Britain and France, there would definitely be pro-fascist/revaunchist style para-military groups integrated into the armies of both countries. If not paramilitary, then actual units in the army. @pattontank12 and I have referred to the French Vichy uniforms and British BUF uniforms for such an "evil" look.

^^^ --- the uniforms of the Milice Francaise are a good start for that kind of look for France if you need examples from OTL. You'd need to remove the Milice insignia for something more pro-royalist however.

^^^ --- There is also the uniforms seen worn by the British Union of Fascists. heavy emphasis on black and gray, with insignia that incorporates red, white, and blue.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Yes, I agree. The usage of the Carillon-style flag would likely be a result of the butterfly effect of having Quebec's independence proclaimed in 1917, far before it was officially adopted in our timeline in 1948 as the regional flag as part of Canada. There was, of course, still a desire for self government among the Quebecois at this time despite some major misgivings. And of course the design of a flag like the modern Quebec one was in the works. I do agree as well that there would likely be some variation in the flag in TL-191.

In fact I am glad you brought up the topic of Quebec's flag again, as there is an alternative flag to the Carillon-style flag, one that was actually made and adopted by the Patriote Movement of Canada from 1832-1838 and one that would likely be on the minds of Quebecers even in TL-191.

^^^ --- This is the flag of the Parti Patriote, used from 1832-1838 as part of the Rebellion of Lower Canada in 1837-1838. This rebellion took place in what is now Quebec and was the "national flag" of the self proclaimed "Republic of Lower Canada". It was said that the design was inspired by the tricolor of France, but that the colors were representative of the Irish-Canadians (green), French-Canadians (white), and English-Quebecers (red). This flag was representative of the movement for an independent Lower Canada.

And yes, it has apparently been commented on that it looks similar to a couple of other national flags.

the Patriote flag was largely abandoned after the Uprising and only came back into popularity in the 70s after it was used by the FLQ, a left wing terrorist group. Its doubtful that it would have been adopted by the republic of Quebec in TL-191 both because it would have lack any real resonance with the population at the time and also because, at its core, it is a flag of rebellion.

Quebec before 1948 did not have a specific flag that was used by the government and its agency. A banner of arms (the provincial arms stretched to fill the flag) was used on at least one occasion and british blue ensigns defaced with the provincial arms were technically authorised but there is not evidence that they were ever actually used.

The carillon-sacré-coeurs was, at the time, considered a flag representing *french-canadians*, regardless of location (even franco-americans communities used it) so while it was not specific to quebec, it at least would have been perceived as a logical choice to represent what would be, for all intent and purpose, the creation of a "french-canadian homeland". All that to say that some variation of it would seem the most plausible choice to me. Personally, since the national flag wouldn't have the Sacred Heart in the middle, I'd flip the fleur-de-lys so they point outward.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

regarding the armament of Quebec, OTL, a quebecois called Joseph Huot created an automatic riffle in 1916 though for various reason, it was never adopted by the canadians. ATL this could of course mean that Huot's was adopted by a nascent Quebec government to reduce reliance on imported weapons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huot_Automatic_Rifle

 

[cortz#9]

Hotchkiss H38 French Medium barrel introduced in 1939, an improved and up-gunned version of the Hotchkiss H36 (OTL H35).