It was a natural combination, and the expanded LV could use the PRR's Penn Station in New York (spectacularly rebuilt in the 1960s into a multistory complex that included a bus terminal and the new Madison Square Garden perched atop the facility) for its long-distance trains.
Penn station still gets torn down? Aww. :(
But rebuilt into an impressive station that also basically has the PA bus terminal on top?! And the Garden on top of that?! Woah! That would be amazing.


So the North East gets consolidated, but like all the other areas it gets consolidated in a better, smarter set up than otl? It is indeed a TL were rail comes out stronger and better equipped for the future.


Btw, I didn't mean to get all negative. Great TL and it is obvious you know the details of this subject. :)
 
Reform on the Van Sweringen Roads
The B&O's purchase of stake in the LV, CNJ and Reading had a profound effect on the railroads in the Northeast. The mighty PRR and NYC could weather the competition with relative ease, but the smaller roads in the region quickly decided they must make countermoves or be left out in the cold. The Erie was both too small to fight back on its own and deeply nervous about the B&O expansion. At the same time the Chesapeake & Ohio was emerging as the financial leader of the Van Sweringan roads, and all the major lines, plus Lackawanna, huddled together. But as was the case with most other railroads under shared ownership, the "parallel roads" theorem meant that they could not completely merge into each other at least at the time. So instead the Sweringens created Chesapeake & Erie Corporation to operate them all from Cleveland, OH.

The Lehigh Valley was one of the first to respond, combining with the Wabash. The two roads had long enjoyed a friendly connection at Buffalo NY, and both had ties to the PRR. It was a natural combination, and the expanded LV could use the PRR's Penn Station in New York. However, the problem remained of how to properly link the two roads together for many years. Not helping was that the sheer size of the Wabash thanks to its takeover of several interurbans in the midwest put them at odds with the ICC. Which made hooking up with the PRR out of the question at that point in time. So they simply remained close to the Pennsylvania without actually fusing into it.

The B&O, Reading, and Jersey Central had in the meanwhile fashioned a new mainline through route across the northern tier of Pennsylvania and New Jersey to New York City. Using the B&O's purchased NYC line from Ashtabula to Williamsport PA; the Reading from Williamsport to Allentown via Reading; and the CNJ mainline to Jersey City; with the B&O line into Tribeca Station. From Reading, the Reading could let trains from mainly Chicago access Philadelphia, then reunite with the B&O there to get to Washington DC.

The Lackawanna and Erie petitioned the Interstate Commerce Commission for the right of access to the B&O's new passenger terminal in Lower Manhattan, arguing that the Erie's old Jersey City terminal could not compete and that the Lackawanna and Erie would be forced to curtail passenger service otherwise. The B&O, not wanting a major competitor in its new terminal, fought tooth and nail, but the ICC ultimately came down on the side of the Lackawanna and Erie, and on March 4, 1936 the Erie's Erie Limited began operating out of the Manhattan terminal, passing onto the former Erie via a new connection at Croxton, New Jersey. The B&O eventually decided to make the best of the situation, charging Van Sweringen lines dearly for the privilege of renting space in the terminal.

1200px-Erie_Limited.JPG

A colorized photo of the Erie Limited's first run from the B&O's Tribeca Station; March 4, 1936.

OOC: Thank you to @Joe Bonkers for some of the ideas here.
 
Last edited:
The Old Woman and the New Haven
For years, the New York, Ontario, and Western had been struggling to stay alive. It had since October of 1904 it had been under the control of the New York, New Haven & Hartford, then led by banker and industrialist J.P. Morgan. A new president was brought in, Charles Mellen, who attempted to use the O&W as a bartering chip with the New York Central to leverage the New Haven's interests elsewhere. This endeavor proved unsuccessful for the New Haven but resulted in the railroad being neglected and poorly maintained.

However, the Old Woman would eventually get a new lease on life when the New Haven sought to expand their service to upstate New York, specifically Buffalo. To that end, they appealed to the ICC to get the former Rome, Watertown, and Ogdesnburg Railroad from NYC control. As such, it was agreed that the NYC would fork it up when it was found the line paralleled the Water Level Route in the same area. While the NYC was somewhat bitter about it, the NYO&W and New Haven were fairly happy to expand their scope of service to Upstate New York.

The revised plans would also lead to a new deal with the Canadian National Railway across the Northern border. Under this agreement, the CN would be able to shuttle trains from Chicago, over the Grand Trunk Western, to New York over the NYO&W through Ontario. Thus allowing the CN to get a major line into New York, leading to the creation of the new passenger train The Trans-Ontarian (Chicago-Detroit-Buffalo-Oswego-Sidney-New York). To that end, the Canadian giant ended the NH in pouring cash into the rail line's improvements. In turn the Baltimore & Ohio built up their partners in the area (Lackawanna, CNJ, and Reading) to create The Columbian passenger train (Buffalo-Binghamton-Scranton-Philadelphia-Washington DC).

By the time the NYO&W's revitalization was finished, it became apparent that it would have needed to survive with another railroad's help. Which is why NYO&W were often happy to work with her New Haven and Canadian masters. As the traffic from the CN grew and grew, the need for stronger freight engines became apparent, and they ordered several 4-8-4 Northerns from ALCO, which were specifically built to be light enough to handle the mainline and haul most heavy trains. They were so successful the Toledo, Peoria, & Western Railroad chose to buy some of the same design for themselves.

tpw_ref_train.jpg

One of the NYO&W's 4-8-4s hauls a freight that was most likely taken over from the Canadian National. This class, known as the Zs, were the last engines the railroad bought before being absorbed into the New Haven in 1948.

ow-35.jpg

NYO&W 4-6-0 #35 at an unknown facility. Today, it is preserved and run by the Upstate Short Line from Utica, NY to Rome, NY.
 
Last edited:
Any thoughts on the latest, @Swede?
First thought was, that new Penn Station wasn't canon? #@&$+
;)

After that, I'm again not quite knowledgeable enough to get a firm grip on exave differences from otl, but I do get that there's a greater push for lines, or parts of lines, changing hands to create more long continuous lines owned by one or at least closely linked companies. Creating a set up that'll create better profitability, better competition and better logistics for freight and passengers. Right?
 
After that, I'm again not quite knowledgeable enough to get a firm grip on exave differences from otl, but I do get that there's a greater push for lines, or parts of lines, changing hands to create more long continuous lines owned by one or at least closely linked companies. Creating a set up that'll create better profitability, better competition and better logistics for freight and passengers. Right?
Yes. At least that's my end goal.
 
The Wabash's Interurban Take-overs
The Indiana Railroad was the last of the typical Midwestern United States interurban lines, and was formed in 1930-31 by combining the operations of the five major interurban systems in central Indiana into one entity. The predecessor companies came under the control of Samuel Insull. It was Insull's plan to transform the Indiana interurban network into a new Indiana Railroad by modernizing the profitable routes and abandoning the unprofitable ones. But with the onset of the Great Depression, the Insull empire collapsed and the Indiana Railroad was left with a decaying infrastructure and little hope for overcoming the growing competition of the automobile for passenger business and the truck for freight business.

Around the same time, however, the Wabash Railroad came into the picture. At the time, the Wabash eyed the possibility of expanding their scope of service in the Midwest to various places in Indiana. Namely the connections with southern roads like the Louisville & Nashville or Southern. The collapse of Insull's empire provided the perfect way to expand some of these ideas. In 1933, the Wabash purchased all of Insull's planned road, and made a series of determinations regarding what lines to use or abandon. In the end, they would ultimately use the mainline from Ft. Wayne to Indianapolis via Muncie, then the line down south to Louisville.

Further west however, the Wabash saw he possibility of a more direct connection with the Illinois Central and L&N at Evansville. To that end, they also purchased a series of interurban right of ways that stemmed from Evansville north to the town of Patoka. From there, the Wabash would send two crews to build to Martinsville on the former IR out of Indianapolis. As part of the agreement, the Wabash made deals with the Cities of Vincennes and Bloomington to have stations and facilities in their respective cities. The Hoosier State Division first opened on April 25, 1935 with the debut of the Detroit-Louisville train The Hoosier State, which had a section split at Indianapolis to Evansville.

The rest of the Indiana Railroad had varying fates. Many parts of the line were purchased for use as rail trails across the state. One railroad that was kept was the lone from Logansport to Indianapolis via the towns of Kokomo, Tipton, and Noblesville. Which was taken up by a small company called the Hoosier State Central, who used the line as a shortline for local transport of goods from the towns to Indianapolis. Today, it is owned by the Indiana Transportation Museum who runs long excursions over the line.

latest

E4 Atlantic type #602 was one of the engines that were initially used on the Hoosier State and other trains over former interurban lines until later upgrades allowed for larger motive power. Here we see it idling in the joint WAB-IC yard in Evansville around October 1936.
 
Last edited:
I also forgot to mention that @NHBL created an alternate version of the Maine Narrow Gauge that exists in my TL.

You can take it up with him, but I may talk with him about possibly working to create a post on the subject.

Hint: There are garratts involved like on my Southern.
 
Is it not possible to use 'third rail' electrics for the Hudson tunnels and switch to electric or diesel-electric engines on routes that go into them?
 
Is it not possible to use 'third rail' electrics for the Hudson tunnels and switch to electric or diesel-electric engines on routes that go into them?
The PRR did just that at Manhattan Transfer before modifying the Hudson Tunnels to take overhead power
 
The Great Streamliner Races: New York-Chicago
In contrast to the normal competition between two railroads in the various passenger routes of railroading's golden age, the speedways from Chicago, IL to New York, NY had no more than five services...

119653.jpg

A streamlined J-3a 4-6-4 was the usual engine for the 20th Century Limited. While five of the streamlined Hudsons are among the numerous that still exist today, only one is operable.

The most popular of the lot was often the New York Central's 20th Century Limited. It generally catered to business travelers its modernistic look. Departing with a red carpet from the Grand Central Station in New York, the train would take its travellers though Upstate New York all the way to Buffalo. Then it would skirt the Great Lakes over the Water Level Route from there the rest of the way to Chicago. Often times, the power was almost ones of the Dreyfuss 4-6-4 Hudsons. So popular was the train that the Central often dispatched two consists, one in each direction. The train took ricers first through scenic Upstate New York then along the Water Level Route via Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, and South Bend.

prr3678.jpg

Pennsylvania Railroad #3678, one of the numerous K4s streamlined specifically for The Broadway Limited and other trains.

The Pennsylvania Railroad's Broadway Limited featured light, airy, and cheery accents and accommodated more to the older crowd. It departed from Penn Station and ran to the South of the Big apple. The train would be handled by the GG1 electrics until Harrisburg, where it was handed over to a steamer. Anyways, the train would run through the Alleghenies via Altoona to Pittsburgh, where it then went for flatter running via the towns of Lima, OH and Ft. Wayne, IN. Near Chicago, it and the NYC Streamliners raced side by side until reaching their respective stations. In the Pennsy's case it being that Chicago Union Terminal. Motive power was often a rather special engine. K4 Class Pacific #3768 has been streamlined in a special casing designed by designer Raymond Lowey. Its shape led to many calling it "The Torpedo," and it honestly did fit in seamlessly with the rolling stock when painted Tuscan Red for a brief time. However, as the train got heaver it was eventually replaced with the R3 4-8-4 "Keystones" then T1 4-4-4-4 Duplexes, or other K4s with an easier to maintain streamlining.

dlw_1939_1151.jpg

Lackawanna Hudson #1151 leads The Nickel Plate Limited on its way to the NKP interchange at Buffalo.

The Nickel Plate Road was not known for its passenger fleet. However, the Nickel Plate Limited was a classy operation with excellent service that carried full streamliner status. The NKP's primary Midwest market between Chicago and Buffalo was heavily dominated by larger rivals and it always maintained a status quo as underdog. However, this never stopped the railroad from providing quality passenger trains like the Limited. The train connected Chicago with Buffalo behind Pacifics built from USRA Designs, and then was transferred to the Lackawanna for the run to New York via Scranton, PA behind semi-streamlined 1151 series Hudsons. Despite both roads being owned by the Van Sweringen Brothers, the Erie and Nickel Plate Road had their own major trains in the racetracks. While the NKP/DLW tried to compete with the NYC more directly, the Erie Limited eschewed most major cities and instead for fast running through the Midwest and such places as Elmira, NY. These two Van Sweringen roads would then it would join at Tribeca Station. Which as where the last of the major roads came...

300px-Capitol_Limited_EMD_EA_and_Tom_Thumb_1937.jpg

The B&O's Capitol Limited was notable among the big name NY-Chicago trains in that it was the only New York-Chicago contender to use diesels from the start. In this case the EMC EA units.

Like the NKP/Erie trains, the Baltimore & Ohio’s Capitol Limited was born as much out of necessity as anything else. Ever the underdog in the New York-Chicago market behind the New York Central and Pennsylvania the B&O knew it needed to keep pace against its two stronger competitors. The B&O's route to the Midwest was filled with stiff grades over the Alleghenies in comparison to the other two. Not helping was the their New York terminal in Tribeca station had not been around for that long and they needed to share it with the Erie and Nickel Plate. To compensate for these disadvantages the B&O provided many amenities like. They also turned to its Mount Clare Shops in Baltimore, where forces traditional heavyweight equipment was given streamlining to match the EA/EB set. What resulted, with the help of renowned industrial designer Otto Kuhler was a stunning train with one of the all-time classic liveries; royal blue, silver, and gold pin-striping. This new train did manage to leave something of a dent in the coming years, and the fact it was diesel powered would not go un-noticed by all.
 
Last edited:
Storm Clouds in Prague
In recent time, Germany had been becoming more powerful.

However, this was soon to come at a cost as the true colors of their premier, Adolf Hitler, were shown as he demanded various parts of Czechoslavakia called the Sudentenland. Accusing the Czech government of mistreating the area's ethnic Germans. British PM Neville Chamberlain and the French Government decided it would be best if Czechs complied. But then, Hitler took over the rest later on by 1938.

There was of course, worse to come.

Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1970-005-28%2C_Anschluss_sudetendeutscher_Gebiete.jpg

The less said the better.
 
Hi, all. I though I would igve some plans I have before World War 2 comes in.

- FDR expresses support for some urban renewal projects in the 1930s. Which includes the improvements of trolley and/or public bus systems.
- Several more locomotives for my TL. Other than the PRR R3 4-8-4. Among them a L&N 4-8-4 and Lima trying to build some new USRA designs.
- Possibly an event for Southern roads, like the Dixie Line being split between at least the Southern and Atlantic Coast Line (based on ideas of @Republic of Michigan).

Any other ideas, folks?
 
Hi, all. I though I would igve some plans I have before World War 2 comes in.

- FDR expresses support for some urban renewal projects in the 1930s. Which includes the improvements of trolley and/or public bus systems.
- Several more locomotives for my TL. Other than the PRR R3 4-8-4. Among them a L&N 4-8-4 and Lima trying to build some new USRA designs.
- Possibly an event for Southern roads, like the Dixie Line being split between at least the Southern and Atlantic Coast Line (based on ideas of @Republic of Michigan).

Any other ideas, folks?
National Mexican railroad
 
The Crucial Decision: December 3,1938
A young man walked down the hallway of the studio he was working at when his boss called him.

"Excuse me." said his boss. "Can you come here please?"

The young man walked up, and asked what he could do for his boss. In response, his boss gave him all his cigarettes. He explained that ever since his mother died of asphyxiation from a gas leak, he had begun to wonder if his own smoking habit could cause similar problems for him one day. Even so, he had remembered when he had trouble affording food just so he could pander his smoking habit.

"I want you to do me favor throw these way for me please." he said, giving the lad a few bucks. "And maybe get me some beef jerky or jelly beans too while you're at it."

The young man prepared to run the errand, and soon returned back with a bag of beef jerky in one hand, and jelly beans in the other.

"I didn't know what to get you, so I got both." said the young man.

"Thank you." said his boss as he returned to work.

"Anything for you, Walt." replied Ward Kimball.
 
Top