I don't understand how there are two queens of France at the same time....?
I suspect Marie's title is more ironic, because she's the Maitresse-en-titre, but the King looks to her more than to his actual Queen. At least, that's how I'm reading it.
I don't understand how there are two queens of France at the same time....?
I don't understand how there are two queens of France at the same time....?
I suspect Marie's title is more ironic, because she's the Maitresse-en-titre, but the King looks to her more than to his actual Queen. At least, that's how I'm reading it.
So, OTL Mary Tudor, Duchess of Suffolk got be address as Queen because she had been anointed as Queen of France, even though she wasn’t the queen of France anymore.
Marie Stuart is the widow of the previous King of France. She had been crowned as Queen of France. So I may be wrong, (if I am we can use the ironic, she’s treated like a Queen idea) but I think since she was crowned and anointed as Queen of France she is still a Queen even if she isn’t Queen of France anymore.
"Queen Marie, Maîtresse-En-Titre, was something of a figured head for the opposing unnamed party, mostly, it appears, due to the desire to spite Queen Helene. She would not inconvenience herself often with the politics of France, preferring to participate in parties, hunts, and other diversions. When she did act, she would do so with a directness that only worked due to her support from the King.”
I think she'd be Dowager Queen, not Maitresse-en-titre. Unless she's both, which is incestuously weird, but is what you seem to be saying with your posts. But, if she is just Dowager Queen, then I think you're right in that she'd still be styled as a Queen because she was crowned and anointed - though she'd have to yield to Helene precedence wise...
AN Sorry of the delay. School has been a lot
“Early in 1571, Kathryn Tudor would arrange the betrothal of Margaret Stewart [1] with John Tudor, the second son of Duke John of Julich-Cleves-Berg. The seven-year-old boy would shortly be sent to England to allow him to learn more of England and its customs.
There he would be granted his own household and companions, among which were Thomas Cromwell, son of the Second Duke of Suffolk and Edmund Tudor, Prince Henry’s youngest son.”
Thomas Nelson, “Kathryn Tudor and the Golden Era”
[1] Margaret Stewart, Princess of Wales, not Margaret Stewart, daughter of the Once Queen of France.
“The little Princess is quite peculiar. To my complete and utter frustration, she will sit so still that I will forget that she is even there. Several times she has overheard things she is not meant to because of this. I am just grateful that she has not informed her mother the queen of the things she has learned. Nor has she told any of her ladies.”
Journal entry of Baroness Grace Borough
“I find I don’t know what to make of the Princess. Her hair is a wonderful red-gold and she looks just like a princess ought. But she is so peculiar. When she looks at me I feel like she is looking through me straight to my soul. As we sit together and sew, she can go hours without speaking.
She will often slip away, and no one will even notice. It seems so strange to me that the heir to the throne can be misplaced. When she is found, she is often up in a tree, writing in her little book.”
Journal entry of Beth Seymour
“We have little to no real information about young Princess Margaret. In contrast to her forceful mother, Princess Margaret was quiet and reserved. She appears to have learned at a young age to keep her own council. Due to several journals and letters we know that she was an avid writer from as early as age eleven. Unfortunately, the only surviving work of Margaret Tudor is Camelot.
Princess Margaret appears to have formed no close relationships with her early companions. None of them record any confidences shared or special privileges. It would not be till later that she would befriend her cousin Eleanor, Duchess of Suffolk, who was fifteen years her senior.”
Professor Laura Anderson, “The Stewart Queen”
Little Margaret reminds me a bit of myself, really..
This new Princess almost sounds like she could have a form of high functioning autism.
AN Sorry of the delay. School has been a lot
“Early in 1571, Kathryn Tudor would arrange the betrothal of Margaret Stewart [1] with John Tudor, the second son of Duke John of Julich-Cleves-Berg. The seven-year-old boy would shortly be sent to England to allow him to learn more of England and its customs.
There he would be granted his own household and companions, among which were Thomas Cromwell, son of the Second Duke of Suffolk and Edmund Tudor, Prince Henry’s youngest son.”
Thomas Nelson, “Kathryn Tudor and the Golden Era”
[1] Margaret Stewart, Princess of Wales, not Margaret Stewart, daughter of the Once Queen of France.
Isn't all this intra-Tudor and Tudor-Stewart intermarriage getting a little inbreedy?
I'm not sure if I've got the family tree right, but I think a child of John and Margaret would be...
- A great-great grandson of Henry VII (Margaret Stewart Princess of Wales->Alexander Stewart Duke of Rothesay->Margaret Tudor Queen of Scotland->Henry VII Tudor).
- A great-great-great grandson of Henry VII (Margaret Stewart POW->Kathryn Tudor Queen of England->Margaret Tudor Princess of Wales (1506-23)->Arthur Tudor King of England->Henry VII Tudor).
- A great-great-great grandson of Henry VII (Margaret Stewart POW->Kathryn Queen of England->Francis Tudor Duke of Calais->Henry Tudor Duke of York and Richmond->Henry VII Tudor).
- A great-great grandson of Henry VII (John Tudor jnr->John Tudor Duke of Cleves->Henry Tudor Duke of York and Richmond->Henry VII Tudor).
They definitely need to bring in some fresh blood after this.
Isn't all this intra-Tudor and Tudor-Stewart intermarriage getting a little inbreedy?
I'm not sure if I've got the family tree right, but I think a child of John and Margaret would be...
- A great-great grandson of Henry VII (Margaret Stewart Princess of Wales->Alexander Stewart Duke of Rothesay->Margaret Tudor Queen of Scotland->Henry VII Tudor).
- A great-great-great grandson of Henry VII (Margaret Stewart POW->Kathryn Tudor Queen of England->Margaret Tudor Princess of Wales (1506-23)->Arthur Tudor King of England->Henry VII Tudor).
- A great-great-great grandson of Henry VII (Margaret Stewart POW->Kathryn Queen of England->Francis Tudor Duke of Calais->Henry Tudor Duke of York and Richmond->Henry VII Tudor).
- A great-great grandson of Henry VII (John Tudor jnr->John Tudor Duke of Cleves->Henry Tudor Duke of York and Richmond->Henry VII Tudor).
They definitely need to bring in some fresh blood after this.
I agree, but it is complicated when half the Princes/Princesses in Europe are your cousins, one way or another...
Habsburgs inherited that bad thinking from the Avis and Trastámaras... And Bourbons after taking the Spanish crown continued to follow the tradition...Yep, I wasn’t planning on Margaret marrying a Tudor but then I realized she’d be a Stewart and that would really really bug Kathryn.
But it’s not quite as bad it looks. Just look at Margaret, yes she is the granddaughter several times over of Henry VII, but each line brings in new blood.
- Margaret Stewart -> Alexander Stewart -> James Stewart -> entirely different dna
- Margaret Stewart -> Kathryn Tudor -> Margaret Tudor -> Catherine of Aragon -> different dna
- Margaret Stewart-> Kathryn Tudor -> Francis Tudor -> Catherine of Navarre -> different dna
The Tudors aren’t the OTL Habsburgs, they aren’t double cousin marriages and uncles to nieces. But yep, new blood next generation, once Kathryn is sure that the dynasty will be Tudors not something else.