Sports What Ifs.

[ejpsan]

Is there any possible way to keep the Dodgers and Giants in NYC? The Dodgers could have gotten their dome, but the Giants are a tougher sell.

The Giants were out the door and on their way to Minnesota where their Triple-A team was, as for the Dodgers you have to butterfly away Robert Moses who was planning for the Dodgers to move in a new stadium at Flushing Meadows the Queens.
For the Giants to stay you would have someone who could have been a better owner than Horace Stoneham who somehow kept making the wrong decisions, as an example when he moved the team to San Francisco he wanted the stadium in China Basin but the Mayor showed him a piece of unused land at Candlestick Point in February when the weather is nice, what he didn't know that from April to August Candlestick Point it gets cold, windy, and foggy.
One time I went to a doubleheader in August and it was 80 degrees outside the stadium and I nearly froze my rear off, there was a hot dog sealer that was circling the the stadium from the fifth inning of the first game to the third inning of the second game.

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

The idea full fledge would Work as we can add a league wide wild card early and if a southern league develop would be 4 or 6 playoffs spots, but integrated Work easier too

The idea of four leagues would work best. If the AL and NL are restricted to east of the Rockies and north of, say, DC, while the Southern League gets the old CSA and the PCL gets the Rockies and west. This would necessarily avert MLB expansion in the early 60s beyond creating the Southern League, so assuming that the PCL rebounds and the Dodgers and Giants stay East (Stoneham sells the Giants and they end up in Shea; new Ebbets gets built) then come 1961 I see it a little like this:

AL
Baltimore Orioles
Boston Red Sox
Chicago White Sox
Cleveland Indians
Detroit Tigers
Kansas City Athletics
Minnesota Twins
New York Yankees

NL
Brooklyn Dodgers
Chicago Cubs
Cincinnati Reds
Milwaukee Braves
New York Giants
Philadelphia Phillies
Pittsburgh Pirates
St. Louis Cardinals

Southern
Atlanta Firecrackers
Charlotte Knights
Houston Astros
Miami Marlins
Nashville Sounds
New Orleans Pelicans
Texas Rangers
Washington Senators

PCL
Hollywood Stars
Los Angeles Angels
Portland Beavers
Sacramento Solons
San Diego Padres
San Francisco Seals
Seattle Rainiers
Vancouver Mounties

 

[Nivek]

new Ebbets gets built

That would be the Brooklyn Dome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_domed_Brooklyn_Dodgers_stadium and maybe an early brooklyn basket team as the area develops early for sports? and the Giants would take the Spot Mets take OTL. A Shame we loss the blue jays here.

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

That would be the Brooklyn Dome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_domed_Brooklyn_Dodgers_stadium and maybe an early brooklyn basket team as the area develops early for sports? and the Giants would take the Spot Mets take OTL. A Shame we loss the blue jays here.

Bear in mind that the Blue Jays and Expos weren’t added until later and I proposed that as an early 60s measure. For each league, there’s likely expansion to 12 teams apiece and natural rivals for a lot of teams (OKC probably gets a team, SLC and Denver get them for the PCL, Memphis gets one...coming up with eight for the northeast and Great Lakes May be tricky but doable.)

Bear in mind Charlie Finley didn’t want to stay in KC and is probably on the move again, though not sure where if he’s boxed in. Same with the Braves, and places like Indy, Buffalo, Louisville and possibly Columbus are potential big league cities. And there’s probably some geographic encroachment with expansion once the northeast runs out of cities. At most, I could come up with 48 big league teams across four leagues and a hell of a time writing the schedule.

 

[ejpsan]

For the Four League concept to work you are going to have a shared television network split of the money because the American and National Leagues have the bigger television markets.

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

For the Four League concept to work you are going to have a shared television network split of the money because the American and National Leagues have the bigger television markets.

Probably sooner interleague play as well, since the PCL will need to prove itself head-to-Head in more than just the World Series.

 

[Nivek]

Probably sooner interleague play as well, since the PCL will need to prove itself head-to-Head in more than just the World Series.

With the PCL interleague become a must earlier, even if limited to PCL VS old MLB before being everyone vs everyone later on. need to showcase teams and talent too

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

With the PCL interleague become a must earlier, even if limited to PCL VS old MLB before being everyone vs everyone later on. need to showcase teams and talent too

Given that the 154-game schedule still makes mathematical sense in this scenario (in theory,) I wonder how it would work. I’m picturing that the PCL (and probably the Southern League) get split in half geographically in a way that makes sense. So one year the AL would play, say, the PCL, with every team taking a two-week trip to the West Coast. Half the AL goes to San Diego, LA and San Francisco while the other half goes to Sacramento all the way up to Vancouver. Then later the PCL heads easy and plays the teams they didn’t play at home. One could even split the AL in half geographically as well for the same purpose.

So the Yankees, for one, could go west and play the Padres, Stars, Angels and Seals, and then head back east and play the Solons, Beavers, Rainiers and Mounties at home a couple of weeks later. Then the next year they do the same with the Southern League while the NL takes the PCL, with a guarantee of each team playing everyone every other year and going to each ballpark once every four years.

After about two such rotations, the AL and NL can play each other like this, when fans finally chomp at the bit for intra-city matchups such as Yankees-Dodgers, Yankees-Giants, White Sox-Cubs, and to a lesser extent Indians-Reds, Cardinals-Athletics, and Twins-Braves.

The prelude to the World Series would consist of the leagues that played each other in the regular season squaring off, so if the AL played the PCL, we may see the Yankees go toe-to-toe with the San Francisco Seals with the winner advancing to the World Series to play either the Cardinals or the Charlotte Knights.

 

[AltSptHst]

Steve young to the chiefs them?

Actually, by 1992, there was a rumor involving Young going to the Raiders for Tim Brown (and maybe the Raiders' first round pick in 1992 as well).

 

[OldNavy1988]

Just running a plausibility check on this alignment:

MLB
AL:
Baltimore Orioles
Boston Red Sox
Chicago White Sox
Cleveland Indians
Detroit Tigers
New York Yankees
Philadelphia Athletics
Texas Rangers

NL:
Brooklyn Dodgers
Chicago Cubs
Cincinnati Red Legs
Kansas City Monarchs
Milwaukee Braves
Minnesota Twins
Pittsburgh Pirates
St Louis Cardinals

PCL:
Hollywood Stars
Los Angeles Angels
Oakland Oaks
Portland Beavers
San Diego Padres
San Francisco Seals
Sacramento Solons
Seattle Rainiers

AL/NL Expansion:
Houston Colt 45's/Astros
Washington Grays
Atlanta Thrashers (or Milwaukee Brewers)
Montreal Expos

 

[AnonymousSauce]

Just running a plausibility check on this alignment:

MLB
AL:
Baltimore Orioles
Boston Red Sox
Chicago White Sox
Cleveland Indians
Detroit Tigers
New York Yankees
Philadelphia Athletics
Texas Rangers

NL:
Brooklyn Dodgers
Chicago Cubs
Cincinnati Red Legs
Kansas City Monarchs
Milwaukee Braves
Minnesota Twins
Pittsburgh Pirates
St Louis Cardinals

PCL:
Hollywood Stars
Los Angeles Angels
Oakland Oaks
Portland Beavers
San Diego Padres
San Francisco Seals
Sacramento Solons
Seattle Rainiers

AL/NL Expansion:
Houston Colt 45's/Astros
Washington Grays
Atlanta Thrashers (or Milwaukee Brewers)
Montreal Expos

I doubt that if the Giants moved to Minnesota that they would change their name, especially if Horace Stoneham still owned them. They'd probably be named the Minneapolis Giants.

 

[Alstein]

One issue:
If the PCL happens and takes off, they are going to raid MLB teams and players are going to jump leagues. This is going to ramp up salaries heavily, and dilute MLB talent.

If this happens, MLB won't expand and dilute things further. Any sort of Southern League would happen post-merger, if a merger happened (or some sort of agreement to match salaries, and any attempt to collude down salaries will result in a strike)

Also, a Southern League would be dirt-poor, and would be inferior to the other leagues, especially if it remained white-only (though realistically, I think the Civil Rights Act would be passed before any sort of Southern League happened) I could also see black players refusing to play in that league, picking other leagues even if it meant less money.

 

[Nivek]

One issue:
If the PCL happens and takes off, they are going to raid MLB teams and players are going to jump leagues. This is going to ramp up salaries heavily, and dilute MLB talent.

If this happens, MLB won't expand and dilute things further. Any sort of Southern League would happen post-merger, if a merger happened (or some sort of agreement to match salaries, and any attempt to collude down salaries will result in a strike)

Also, a Southern League would be dirt-poor, and would be inferior to the other leagues, especially if it remained white-only (though realistically, I think the Civil Rights Act would be passed before any sort of Southern League happened) I could also see black players refusing to play in that league, picking other leagues even if it meant less money.

I was talking late 60's-70's when the Southen league happens if racism is still a issue...kill southern league and just expand to two wild card and wild card heat to head before the world series( ie like nowadays, three conferences, two league wide wild card...yeah insanity like two same league teams facing each other in WS...but post season is always insanity) i forgot how racist the USA was at times

 

[Alstein]

My guess is with a PCL gaining Major-League status in the early 50s (once the Dodgers and Giants move the window is over), you'd see what I descirbed in the mid to late 50s.
MLB has its movement in the 1950s, and 1961-1962 expansion gets pushed back a bit due to dilution of talent. Maybe 1965 or so, perhaps after international talent floodgates start to open more?

Could see each league going to 10 team then. After some more raiding- I could see them doing something similar to NFL-AFL merger, splitting the PCL teams into the NL and AL as western divisions (combining with Westernmost NL+AL teams) , and going to 32 teams by 1973. Doubt you'd see more than 2 rounds of playoffs as baseball was averse to expansion- at least not until an expansion to 36 teams, but that wouldn't be until the 90s.

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

I doubt that if the Giants moved to Minnesota that they would change their name, especially if Horace Stoneham still owned them. They'd probably be named the Minneapolis Giants.

If they’re the Minneapolis Giants, is there any chance of a crosstown rival popping up in St. Paul (probably known as the Saints)?

Also another possibility if the PCL joins is there being a created fourth league that isn’t strictly geographical in nature. My thought is a bit of an outside shot, but promote the International League. Toronto, Columbus, Atlanta and Buffalo could support teams. Teams in Rochester and Syracuse would be long shots, as would Jacksonville and Richmond. Maybe give it a try as is and see if teams want to relocate - the IL would struggle to make it at first but by 1970 would be settled nicely as a fourth league. And by that point, leagues could look at going to 10 teams all around.

 

[ShadowSpeaker]

What if the Munich air Disaster never happened and Duncan Edwards went on to play for England in the FIFA world Cup. England-Brazil could be a great match with Edwards taking on Pele and company

 

[Corjomc]

Scratch one Morissey song.

 

[Nivek]

What if Ryan Leaf lived up the hype? he was an ass but he only take up drugs after he was out the NFL so that is salvagable

 

[Jim Smitty]

What if Ryan Leaf lived up the hype? he was an ass but he only take up drugs after he was out the NFL so that is salvagable

Then Leaf needs to be drafted by a team with a Tony Dungy like HC. If not for Dungy Sapp would never had lived up to what he could do. So it really depends on who is his HC is.

 

[Nivek]

Then Leaf needs to be drafted by a team with a Tony Dungy like HC. If not for Dungy Sapp would never had lived up to what he could do. So it really depends on who is his HC is.

Excatly, chargers was the worst place possible, seems the colts might have worked for him(arians) but still they got manning.