Military tactics
Banned
How hard to defeat Nazi Germany if it had the oil supply to fight world war two ?
It's easier to bomb refineries located in Thuringia than by PloestiHow hard to defeat Nazi Germany if it had the oil supply to fight world war two ?
It depends on the source...
1-Is Central Europe another East Texas?
2-Does Germany capture Russian oilfields?
3-If not Russia, are there fields elsewhere within otl's Germany conquests?
4-Is a more efficient/cheaper coal liquification process developed?
How hard to defeat Nazi Germany if it had the oil supply to fight world war two ?
The Nazis could have been awash in oil but it still wouldn't have helped them with their other issues such as their food and other resource deficits as well as their bat crap crazy ideologies. Hell, WI the German oil industry was primarily controlled by Jewish businesses? The damn fool Nazis would have fire bombed them then been forced to rebuild them a la Kristallnacht.How hard to defeat Nazi Germany if it had the oil supply to fight world war two ?
I agree that Ploesti was beyond the range of Wallied strategic bombers until the bases in southern Italy became available.It's easier to bomb refineries located in Thuringia than by Ploesti
There's also the not so small point that quite often the problem wasn't an absolute shortage of oil but the inability to get it where it was needed. The Wehrmacht logistics system was wholly inadequate and more oil just means more fuel and lubricants piling up in the rear areas.The Nazis could have been awash in oil but it still wouldn't have helped them with their other issues such as their food and other resource deficits as well as their bat crap crazy ideologies. Hell, WI the German oil industry was primarily controlled by Jewish businesses? The damn fool Nazis would have fire bombed them then been forced to rebuild them a la Kristallnacht.
SO Germany could have produced 13 million tons per year before we get into serious ASB beyond ignoring how this comes about. The OKW estimated a need of 12.4 million tonnes in 1941, so that is an interesting figure. Lets assume it starts in 1926 and increase 1 million tonnes per years so they have produced 84.5 million tonnes before ww2 starts. At 13 USD per barrel (a good medium period estimate) and an average of 7 barrel per tons it is 7.689 billion USD saved on foreign exchange on imports (or gained in imports) which comes in at 19 billion reichsmark. Lets assumed half is lost investing in the oil industry and petrochemical industry and reduced global oil prices. It still basically solve Germany's FOREX problems during the rearmament period - in addition to provide the oil needed during the war (bombing dependent off course).This is a link to the last thread we had on the subject.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-oilfields-more-accessible-to-the-axis.445777/
IOTL the peak of Austrian crude oil production was 3.5 million long tons in 1955 and West Germany's peak was 7.5-7.8 million long tons from 1964 to 1969. Meanwhile, Dutch crude petroleum production was 2.0-2.3 million long tons for the duration of the 1960s.
IIRC the consensus was that crude oil could have been produced in those quantities with the technology available in the 1930s if the Austrians, Dutch and Germans had known it was there.
IIRC there was some discussion in the earlier threat about whether it was in addition to Germany's synthetic oil programme or instead of it.SO Germany could have produced 13 million tons per year before we get into serious ASB beyond ignoring how this comes about. The OKW estimated a need of 12.4 million tonnes in 1941, so that is an interesting figure. Lets assume it starts in 1926 and increase 1 million tonnes per years so they have produced 84.5 million tonnes before ww2 starts. At 13 USD per barrel (a good medium period estimate) and an average of 7 barrel per tons it is 7.689 billion USD saved on foreign exchange on imports (or gained in imports) which comes in at 19 billion reichsmark. Lets assumed half is lost investing in the oil industry and petrochemical industry and reduced global oil prices. It still basically solve Germany's FOREX problems during the rearmament period - in addition to provide the oil needed during the war (bombing dependent off course).
It may also stimulate the automobile/agricultural tractor industry pre-war leading to an easier establishment of the panzer corps and their required organic truck pools.
They might win considering only the direct pro-German butterflies which is off course quite a stretch.
What's the serious ASB part? It may or may not be ASB, I simply don't know.SO Germany could have produced 13 million tons per year before we get into serious ASB beyond ignoring how this comes about. The OKW estimated a need of 12.4 million tonnes in 1941, so that is an interesting figure. Lets assume it starts in 1926 and increase 1 million tonnes per years so they have produced 84.5 million tonnes before ww2 starts. At 13 USD per barrel (a good medium period estimate) and an average of 7 barrel per tons it is 7.689 billion USD saved on foreign exchange on imports (or gained in imports) which comes in at 19 billion reichsmark. Lets assumed half is lost investing in the oil industry and petrochemical industry and reduced global oil prices. It still basically solve Germany's FOREX problems during the rearmament period - in addition to provide the oil needed during the war (bombing dependent off course).
It may also stimulate the automobile/agricultural tractor industry pre-war leading to an easier establishment of the panzer corps and their required organic truck pools.
They might win considering only the direct pro-German butterflies which is off course quite a stretch.
It would be ASB to go beyond the historical max production. Now its just a really big stretch in why they would start it and how.What's the serious ASB part? It may or may not be ASB, I simply don't know.
If it isn't ASB then it's frightening.
Nearly all what ifs about the Axis are insufficient to change the course of the war on their own. They increase the number of people that die. They increase the number of injured and maimed. They increase the amount of material destruction. They make it harder for the world to recover after the war ends. However, several have to be combined so that the Axis powers win, which is fortunate for the human race.
IMHO this is one of the few what ifs that on its own makes an Axis victory feasible.
The lack of trucks and rubber for tires was also a major problem, not just fuel shortages. If anything the extra fuel helps the economy in Europe as they don't have to rely on demotorization/any other fuel besides petroleum products. If anything they'd benefit more from having tractors than horses on farms.Having a sufficient fuel reserve from 1936 to 1941 will allow Germany to build up their fuel reserve and thus the Wehrmacht can avoid de-motorizations of their Infantry Divisiobs for Ops Barbarossa and give them better manuever flexibility to keep up with the German panzer n motorized divisions and assist in surrounding the Soviet pockets at a faster pace and deny any higher number of soviet troops from escaping the kessel pockets ...
The Luftwaffe will also probably have more fuel to train more pilots and create more experience flyers to be used on both fronts...
And the millions of horses that the Wehrmacht used to assist the infantry move their heavy equipment can be used instead on the agricultural fields to help the farmers on plowing n moving their harvest to be stockpile for future usages...
That is at least as important as the availability of the oil on the front line.The lack of trucks and rubber for tires was also a major problem, not just fuel shortages. If anything the extra fuel helps the economy in Europe as they don't have to rely on demotorization/any other fuel besides petroleum products. If anything they'd benefit more from having tractors than horses on farms.
This is a link to the last thread we had on the subject.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-oilfields-more-accessible-to-the-axis.445777/
IOTL the peak of Austrian crude oil production was 3.5 million long tons in 1955 and West Germany's peak was 7.5-7.8 million long tons from 1964 to 1969. Meanwhile, Dutch crude petroleum production was 2.0-2.3 million long tons for the duration of the 1960s.
IIRC the consensus was that crude oil could have been produced in those quantities with the technology available in the 1930s if the Austrians, Dutch and Germans had known it was there.