Challenge: Improve "Return of the Jedi"

[Dr. Doom]

Given the current popularity of Game of Thrones, I can think of a few, uh, risque ways to improve RotJ.

Also, according to Gary Kurtz, a producer on A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, there was originally going to be a bittersweet ending in which Han would die and Luke would wander off into the sunset alone, and Leia would declare herself Queen and take over the Empire. Lucas wanted a happy ending however.

I think if we wanted a more bittersweet and ambiguous ending, it would be better to have Luke actually save "Darth Vader" (now Anakin again), at the cost of becoming a fugitive from the Rebel Alliance (now the New Republic).

 

[unclepatrick]

Also, according to Gary Kurtz, a producer on A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, there was originally going to be a bittersweet ending in which Han would die and Luke would wander off into the sunset alone, and Leia would declare herself Queen and take over the Empire. Lucas wanted a happy ending however.

I could see one of the lesser characters like Wedge or Lando, dying or as a long shot C3PO or R2D2 getting destroy but I really could not see any of main three dying.

 

[Amadeus]

I could see one of the lesser characters like Wedge or Lando, dying or as a long shot C3PO or R2D2 getting destroy but I really could not see any of main three dying.

If Han dies after you just spent the entire first act saving him from Jabba, that wouldn't go well with critics and fans.

 

[unclepatrick]

If Han dies after you just spent the entire first act saving him from Jabba, that wouldn't go well with critics and fans.

Agree. The only way, you might get away with killing Han is if, Han turns out to be dead when they unfreeze him. Then you have both Luke and Leia really angry over Han Death and heading for the Dark Side. This would not be a Kid Friendly Movie that design to sell Toys.

 

[Amadeus]

Agree. The only way, you might get away with killing Han is if, Han turns out to be dead when they unfreeze him. Then you have both Luke and Leia really angry over Han Death and heading for the Dark Side. This would not be a Kid Friendly Movie that design to sell Toys.

Kids could still see it: if they could withstand Obi-Wan's death and Luke's hand getting cut off they should be able to handle Solo's end. (I mean, there weren't any parent complaints about this in "Force Awakens" where there?). But it would be difficult to get Ford on board just for brief cameo where he dies. Especially once he became such a big star after Raiders.

I've read that Ford was contracted for only two movies, unlike Hamill and Fisher who were contracted for three, so in Empire they froze Solo to leave it ambiguous as to whether or not he would return. In fact Lucas didn't think Ford would want to return, but this turned out not to be the case. So really the only way you could get rid of Solo without killing him is if Ford decides not to return for ROTJ, and Solo just remains on Jabba's wall until the end of time.

 

[unclepatrick]

Kids could still see it: if they could withstand Obi-Wan's death and Luke's hand getting cut off they should be able to handle Solo's end. (I mean, there weren't any parent complaints about this in "Force Awakens" where there?). But it would be difficult to get Ford on board just for brief cameo where he dies. Especially once he became such a big star after Raiders.

I've read that Ford was contracted for only two movies, unlike Hamill and Fisher who were contracted for three, so in Empire they froze Solo to leave it ambiguous as to whether or not he would return. In fact Lucas didn't think Ford would want to return, but this turned out not to be the case. So really the only way you could get rid of Solo without killing him is if Ford decides not to return for ROTJ, and Solo just remains on Jabba's wall until the end of time.

You could have Luke and Leia upset that they keep getting diverted from rescuing Han. They defeat the Empire, Kill the Emperor, and save Darth Vader soul. Then the Film ends with the Falcon landing out side Jaba Palace and Luke and Leia both ignite their Light Saber and head toward the Building. Cut to credits.

 

[Amadeus]

You could have Luke and Leia upset that they keep getting diverted from rescuing Han. They defeat the Empire, Kill the Emperor, and save Darth Vader soul. Then the Film ends with the Falcon landing out side Jaba Palace and Luke and Leia both ignite their Light Saber and head toward the Building. Cut to credits.

That would be pretty cool, even if fans are disappointed that they never see Han. I'm glad Ford returned for ROTJ and that he wasn't killed off (yet) but he should've been given an expanded role with the kind of richer character development that Ford wanted.

 

[unclepatrick]

That would be pretty cool, even if fans are disappointed that they never see Han. I'm glad Ford returned for ROTJ and that he wasn't killed off (yet) but he should've been given an expanded role with the kind of richer character development that Ford wanted.

I not sure how much character development can be done in a Star Wars Film but My take above, does give Han, his own plot thread separate from Luke and Leia and Boba Fett survives Tatooine and continues to threaten Han. There is a final fight between them in above the City Streets of Coruscant.

 

[HIM Dogson]

I not sure how much character development can be done in a Star Wars Film but My take above, does give Han, his own plot thread separate from Luke and Leia and Boba Fett survives Tatooine and continues to threaten Han. There is a final fight between them in above the City Streets of Coruscant.

That's pretty similar to an idea that I had in the Photos of the Kaiserreich thread; basically, make Fett a foil to Han; make him a charming rogue similar to Han in A New Hope who fate happened to place with the Empire instead of the Rebels. I think that would work really well.

 

[Amadeus]

Another thing to consider is this: would a better ROTJ have any impact on the prequels?

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

Another thing to consider is this: would a better ROTJ have any impact on the prequels?

Another way to improve. Remove Episode V from the Empire Strikes Back opening crawl. It was originally going to be Star Wsrs II after all. Then no prequels or expectation of prequels. Let's just go forward. If we really need to go there, the 8th or 9th movie can be a flashback. Probably run out of ideas by the time we get to the planned 12th movie that comes out in 2007.

 

[NHBL]

One thing that I LIKE about the second Death Star: It inverts the old plot about destroying the superweapon, and never seeing it again. The Empire had plans--the Death Star is a technological terror, created (in universe) with science, built by construction crews supervised by engineers, not a thing of mad science. To me, making a new one fit the Empire's logic, and they learned from what went wrong.

I would have put the second Death Star at some sort of shipyard, and had act two be on the planet the yard orbits.

 

[unclepatrick]

One thing that I LIKE about the second Death Star: It inverts the old plot about destroying the superweapon, and never seeing it again. The Empire had plans--the Death Star is a technological terror, created (in universe) with science, built by construction crews supervised by engineers, not a thing of mad science. To me, making a new one fit the Empire's logic, and they learned from what went wrong.

I would have put the second Death Star at some sort of shipyard, and had act two be on the planet the yard orbits.

I like the idea of Tarkin from the first Marvel Star Wars Comic

The Planet destroying Weapon of the Death Star and a Large number of other heavy weapon in a Space Craft with heavier Shields and the ability to move faster then the Death Star.

 

[LordYam]

Leia is not Luke's sister. Keeps the love triangle going.

No Ewoks.

None of Ben Kenobi's "certain point of view" bullshit. Darth Vader is Luke's father but is not Anakin. Maybe Luke's mother cheated on his father, maybe Darth seduced her, save that for the prequels. Old Ben didn't know about that part. Basically everything he told Luke in Star Wars is on the level and his ghost is pretty shocked by it.

More bounty hunters.

Longer search for Han. Build the whole movie around that. Finale at Jabba's place with the now fully trained Luke swooping in from Dagobah to save the day.

Let's not kill off the Emperor just yet either. There's 6 more movies to go. The Emperor doesn't even need to have more than another cameo.

That's rather lame; having Obi Wan lie adds ambiguity and shows that he's not perfect. One suggestion was that he did want to tell him but Yoda nixed it. Personally I'd have Yoda say that he kept quiet partially because he was scared Luke would hold back but also out of his own sense of shame.....he could have done more to stop Anakin's fall.

With Han you can have him go out in a blaze of glory.

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

That's rather lame; having Obi Wan lie adds ambiguity and shows that he's not perfect. One suggestion was that he did want to tell him but Yoda nixed it. Personally I'd have Yoda say that he kept quiet partially because he was scared Luke would hold back but also out of his own sense of shame.....he could have done more to stop Anakin's fall.

With Han you can have him go out in a blaze of glory.

Maybe but he's already shown to be pretty dumb so do we need to add lying too? By dumb I mean that he hid the kid on the father's home planet with his relatives and didn't bother to change his last name.

If Luke had joined the Academy like he planned then he'd be discovered as soon as Darth Vader reviewed the HR records. Unless of course Skywalker is the Empire's equivalent of Johnson.

 

[oberdada]

Keep the Ewoks, replacing them with Wookies just does not work.

The Empire does not consider them a threat, that's why the surprise uprising works.

Wookies are scarry and a known tech using species.

 

[Skallagrim]

Keep the Ewoks, replacing them with Wookies just does not work.

The Empire does not consider them a threat, that's why the surprise uprising works.

Wookies are scarry and a known tech using species.

On the contrary, it works perfectly. The Empire is based on an ideology of human supremacy. The rebels are a multi-species alliance, whereas the Empire is almost exclusively human. They look down on non-humans, and (much like certain European imperialists in the colonial era) cannot conceive of the idea that these "inferiors" could ever best them. Not even if there is direct evidence to the contrary. You can allude directly to the idea that the Empire uses Wookiees as slave labourers, and the Wookiee uprising can be very much like a slave revolt.

The thing is that the Empire never bothers looking beyond what the think the Wookiees are (or, in their eyes, should be): brainless, hairy slaves used for harsh manual labour. When it turns out that the Wookiees are quite capable of sophisticated military operations, thank you very much, that takes them by surprise. (Also, the Imperial officers would realisticially be unable to speak Shyriiwook, and wouldn't account for the fact that those "barbarian grunts" actually mean something-- let alone that high-ranking Rebel operatives like Han Solo can understand that language... and that most Wookiees also understand Basic just fine. Whoops, maybe shouldn't have discussed those battle plans in from of the "barbarian" slaves, eh?)

 

[oberdada]

On the contrary, it works perfectly. The Empire is based on an ideology of human supremacy. The rebels are a multi-species alliance, whereas the Empire is almost exclusively human. They look down on non-humans, and (much like certain European imperialists in the colonial era) cannot conceive of the idea that these "inferiors" could ever best them. Not even if there is direct evidence to the contrary. You can allude directly to the idea that the Empire uses Wookiees as slave labourers, and the Wookiee uprising can be very much like a slave revolt.

The thing is that the Empire never bothers looking beyond what the think the Wookiees are (or, in their eyes, should be): brainless, hairy slaves used for harsh manual labour. When it turns out that the Wookiees are quite capable of sophisticated military operations, thank you very much, that takes them by surprise. (Also, the Imperial officers would realisticially be unable to speak Shyriiwook, and wouldn't account for the fact that those "barbarian grunts" actually mean something-- let alone that high-ranking Rebel operatives like Han Solo can understand that language... and that most Wookiees also understand Basic just fine. Whoops, maybe shouldn't have discussed those battle plans in from of the "barbarian" slaves, eh?)

The Empire is racist ( ”So racist that the Emperor doesn't even recognize the Hutts as a superior species” ) but not stupid.

There is a reason to choose a lonely moon like Endor as building site. To keep it secret.
Otherwise they could have built it at Coruscant where the industrial base is.

 

[Skallagrim]

The Empire is racist ( ”So racist that the Emperor doesn't even recognize the Hutts as a superior species” ) but not stupid.

There is a reason to choose a lonely moon like Endor as building site. To keep it secret.
Otherwise they could have built it at Coruscant where the industrial base is.

1. Racist ideology inevitably leads to stupid decisions, because your officer corps buys into the bullshit and acts accordingly.

2. Kashyyk, a jungle planet whose surface can't even be reached because of the dangerous ecosystem, isn't exactly an obvious location, either-- and thus makes for a great out-of-the-way location as well (now with Wookiees as useful slaves, as opposed to Ewoks, who are typically too small to be good for such slave labour).

3. The Empire deliberately leaked the location to the Rebels, since it was -- in the words of a certain admiral -- "A TRAP!"

 

[oberdada]

1. Racist ideology inevitably leads to stupid decisions, because your officer corps buys into the bullshit and acts accordingly.

2. Kashyyk, a jungle planet whose surface can't even be reached because of the dangerous ecosystem, isn't exactly an obvious location, either-- and thus makes for a great out-of-the-way location as well (now with Wookiees as useful slaves, as opposed to Ewoks, who are typically too small to be good for such slave labour).

3. The Empire deliberately leaked the location to the Rebels, since it was -- in the words of a certain admiral -- "A TRAP!"

But, but but .....

The only good line in the movie is ”Not bad for a little furball” , that's what I learned in school.
You can't kill that.