The Twin Vipers: A TL of the Berlin-Moscow Axis

[DakotaTimeTraveler]

Russia getting nuked to cow them into surrendering? We'll have to see how that plays out.

The Allies are right to treat the people in occupied territories with respect. In OTL, when Nazi Germany attacked the Ukraine, they were hailed as liberators and welcomed with open arms...until they started treating the Ukrainians just as bad as other captured peoples. Good to see the Allies aren't making the same mistake ITTL.

 

[kio]

Sounds like were gonna need B-36's for the nuking of the USSR... should be interesting.

 

[Admiral Halsey]

Sounds like were gonna need B-36's for the nuking of the USSR... should be interesting.

B-36s for nukes? Stuart Slade intensifies!

 

[BigBlueBox]

The best outcome for the Western Allies would be a negotiated peace in which they demand Soviet withdrawal from any foreign territory they still occupy, territorial concessions similar to Brest-Litovsk, and a massive tribute of natural resources. Throw the Japanese under the bus and let them and the Soviets bleed each other dry in the Far East, preventing either side from threatening the dominance of the Western Allies.

 

[theg*ddam*hoi2fan]

Throw the Japanese under the bus and let them and the Soviets bleed each other dry in the Far East, preventing either side from threatening the dominance of the Western Allies.

Given that the OP said that the Japanese securing of the Amur was the effective end of the war in the Far East, don't think that'll be happening. Personally, I'd say the Japanese will likely be keeping Eastern Siberia after the war, which the Allies will enjoy as it'll ensure Russia being weakened in case they try rising again...

 

[BigBlueBox]

Given that the OP said that the Japanese securing of the Amur was the effective end of the war in the Far East, don't think that'll be happening. Personally, I'd say the Japanese will likely be keeping Eastern Siberia after the war, which the Allies will enjoy as it'll ensure Russia being weakened in case they try rising again...

If the Allies come to a peace with the Soviets then it’s only a matter of time before Soviets are heading back east, which will be good for the Western Allies. America was against Japanese expansion while supposedly allied to Japan in the First World War, I don’t see why this would change for the Second World War, especially now that Japan is an expansionist military dictatorship instead of a nominal democracy.

 

[theg*ddam*hoi2fan]

If the Allies come to a peace with the Soviets then it’s only a matter of time before Soviets are heading back east, which will be good for the Western Allies. America was against Japanese expansion while supposedly allied to Japan in the First World War, I don’t see why this would change for the Second World War, especially now that Japan is an expansionist military dictatorship instead of a nominal democracy.

Actually they're a civilian government now ITTL. And if you remember, the Allies have recognised Manchukuo now.

Plus, I doubt they're going to make peace with the Soviets. They've already liberated Ukraine, and odds are they'll be hitting them with nukes soon...

After which, the plan is likely to install a White government. Who I doubt will be in any position to head back East... Probably going to be major restrictions on their military.

Japan is an ally with a civilian government, who's been growing closer to the Allies. Plus, they've now got a large chunk of territory to reorganise, which'll likely keep them from further expansion. Britain and the US will likely be happy to let 'em at it in Siberia.

 

[bobbobbins3]

I wonder what Bomber Harris has to say about bombing the USSR into submission

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Sounds like were gonna need B-36's for the nuking of the USSR... should be interesting.

A B-36 isn't much better than a B-29 at avoiding a MiG-11, which is capable of intercepting even at the B-36's ceiling of 43k feet.

The best outcome for the Western Allies would be a negotiated peace in which they demand Soviet withdrawal from any foreign territory they still occupy, territorial concessions similar to Brest-Litovsk, and a massive tribute of natural resources. Throw the Japanese under the bus and let them and the Soviets bleed each other dry in the Far East, preventing either side from threatening the dominance of the Western Allies.

That's a pretty bad outcome for the Allies at this point actually. Leaving the Soviets in power (who have been a part of the Holocaust among other crimes), when the Allies are capable of replacing their government with something that isn't trying to take over half of Asia and kill 20,000,000 people, is pretty poor. Now that the Allies have nukes and near total control of the skies, they don't have to give Stalin anything. Unconditional surrender and total occupation is impossible due to the sheer size of Russia, but anything short of it is well within Allied power now.

Not to mention, Japan getting snubbed at Versailles is the exact reason why they went crazy militarist in the 1920s and '30s. This time they were the first nation attacked by the Axis, and have been one of the four biggest contributors to the war effort (a far greater role than they ever had in WWI). All that they want out of the war is to be respected by Britain, France and America as a great power and to keep the land they have spent the blood of a million men to get - land which is nowhere near any other Allied interests/colonies/trade routes. If I was the Japanese delegation at a peace deal and heard the other Allies say "ah stuff Japan" after that much sacrifice, I'd be pretty angry, and rightfully so.

I wonder what Bomber Harris has to say about bombing the USSR into submission

He's having the absolute time of his life at the moment. Patton is probably the only man in the entire world who could be any happier.

- BNC​

 

[Admiral Halsey]

I have to admit the one thing throwing me off is the tech speed increase for Russia. Them getting what's basically the MiG-15 2 years early doesn't seem that possible TBH.

 

[cortz#9]

I have to admit the one thing throwing me off is the tech speed increase for Russia. Them getting what's basically the MiG-15 2 years early doesn't seem that possible TBH.

Its not a Mig-15.

 

[GDIS Pathe]

Patton is probably the only man in the entire world who could be any happier.

How is he getting along the rest of the allied commanders? Or is that Ikes job?

 

[Admiral Halsey]

Its not a Mig-15.

Okay, so what is the MiG-11 based off on? An earlier version of Mig-15?
Edit: Also, the Allies should have the Meteor, P-80 and Vampire right?

Precisely. Except the Vampire wouldn't be for another couple of months.

- BNC

Also I said what's basically a MiG-15 not it was one.

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I have to admit the one thing throwing me off is the tech speed increase for Russia. Them getting what's basically the MiG-15 2 years early doesn't seem that possible TBH.

My thinking on this is that the USSR had access to German jet engine technology as early as 1941, rather than '44 or '45 when they captured it IOTL, which is already a ~3 year advancement. Also the MiG-9 was the first Soviet production jet, which first flew in 1946 and was based off reverse-engineered German jets, whereas ITTL they've been flying 262s since 1943, again another 2-3 year increase.

There might have been a bit of good fortune needed (if an engineer happens to have a good idea or something), but I don't think a 2 year advancement is too extreme. And the Allies have been getting similar advancements in stuff like heavy tank production, so I think it balances out anyway.

Its not a Mig-15.

It's pretty close to a MiG-15. I was literally reading the MiG-15's Wikipedia page as I was writing the -11's specs, and then knocking a few % off the numbers (1945 vs 1948 engineering experience being the difference). Still better than a P-80 and approximately equal to an F-86.

How is he getting along the rest of the allied commanders? Or is that Ikes job?

That's Ike's job. Patton having four stars just means that he can also command Ridgway, Bradley and the other American generals.

- BNC

 

[cortz#9]

M

It's pretty close to a MiG-15. I was literally reading the MiG-15's Wikipedia page as I was writing the -11's specs, and then knocking a few % off the numbers (1945 vs 1948 engineering experience being the difference). Still better than a P-80 and approximately equal to an F-86.





- BNC

Does this plane still have 2 engines or just one?

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Does this plane still have 2 engines or just one?

One. A substantially better one than the Jumo, slightly worse than a Klimov VK-1.

- BNC

 

[cortz#9]

One. A substantially better one than the Jumo, slightly worse than a Klimov VK-1.

- BNC

OK then I've been way off on what I thought the plane looked like, you described it as an improved me-262 with wings at a more swept angle so I thought it still had the same basic configuration.
Is it closer to the Focke Wulf Fw Ta-183?

 

[cortz#9]

Also I said what's basically a MiG-15 not it was one.

Right, my bad.

 

[BiteNibbleChomp]

OK then I've been way off on what I thought the plane looked like, you described it as an improved me-262 with wings at a more swept angle so I thought it still had the same basic configuration.
Is it closer to the Focke Wulf Fw Ta-183?

That's closer, but if you type in 'mig 15' into images, you'll get something that looks almost exactly like the MiG-11.

The MiG-11 is to the Me 262 as the Panther was to the T-34, inspired by it and using a lot of ideas but ultimately its own project.

- BNC

 

[Anhtuan]

So no cold war this time, and no NATO or Europe Union.

Also what the hell is that plane? It looks like my dong in cold weather. Who making this has a best humor ever.