An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[JohnSmith]

I wonder if the parallels extend a bit further, and the Logothete would be willing to murder the Emperor in order to cover his tracks. D3 dying right now would be a big blow for the Romans, and this might be the one thing leading to a longer war (since the Romans have a decisive advantage in Italy, and are doing very well in Asia and the Danube, indicating a reasonable conclusion might be in sight soon)....

That’s a evil and treasonous train of thought! One that I can completely believe B444 going with.
But even if D3 does get asssasinated there’s no way the Romans will go into civil war to give their enemies the respite they need. Any usurper/pretender will be instantly hung drawn and quartered. What was the point of the ToT if the Romans don’t learn their lesson?

 

[Vasilas]

That’s a evil and treasonous train of thought! One that I can completely believe B444 going with.
But even if D3 does get asssasinated there’s no way the Romans will go into civil war to give their enemies the respite they need. Any usurper/pretender will be instantly hung drawn and quartered. What was the point of the ToT if the Romans don’t learn their lesson?

I don't think ToT is gonna happen--the situation is far too dire for the Lascaris cousins to make a play, and Alexandros Drakos has made his bed when it comes to the purple. However, D3 dying would be still quite bad for the Romans. Odesseus is too inexperienced, and he needs to learn his ropes. A couple of millitary blunders on the way (not quite on the scale of Basil II @ Trajan's gates, that can't happen with the current Roman army) are quite likely. These wont lead to major reversals in all likelihood, but prevent the Romans from fully capitalizing on their gains on the non Italy fronts.

O is also quite a bit away from the City, and there should be some chaos there if it becomes clear D3 was murdered (wrt spies, or enemies in general in the White Palace). A purge is possible, and the Empire will be acting like a headless chicken for a bit (even if D3's wife intervenes to steady the ship), putting the war effort on autopilot. This might be the closest Rome's enemies get to a respite. I still think they will be defeated, and in many cases defeated badly. But this might be the breathing room they need to regroup and fight for another two years.

The post war fate of D3's reforms is also interesting to consider, since idk what O thinks of them. His inclinations appear to be rather more millitary. Great, if D3 builds a sufficiently firm modern state to support it. Not so great if the foundation is not fully prepared.

Granted, I need to re-read many of the recent posts again before shooting my mouth off too much, but D3's health is the biggest challenge facing the Romans at the moment, with all the B444 foreshadowing.

 

[JohnSmith]

I don't think ToT is gonna happen--the situation is far too dire for the Lascaris cousins to make a play, and Alexandros Drakos has made his bed when it comes to the purple. However, D3 dying would be still quite bad for the Romans. Odesseus is too inexperienced, and he needs to learn his ropes. A couple of millitary blunders on the way (not quite on the scale of Basil II @ Trajan's gates, that can't happen with the current Roman army) are quite likely. These wont lead to major reversals in all likelihood, but prevent the Romans from fully capitalizing on their gains on the non Italy fronts.

O is also quite a bit away from the City, and there should be some chaos there if it becomes clear D3 was murdered (wrt spies, or enemies in general in the White Palace). A purge is possible, and the Empire will be acting like a headless chicken for a bit (even if D3's wife intervenes to steady the ship), putting the war effort on autopilot. This might be the closest Rome's enemies get to a respite. I still think they will be defeated, and in many cases defeated badly. But this might be the breathing room they need to regroup and fight for another two years.

The post war fate of D3's reforms is also interesting to consider, since idk what O thinks of them. His inclinations appear to be rather more millitary. Great, if D3 builds a sufficiently firm modern state to support it. Not so great if the foundation is not fully prepared.

Granted, I need to re-read many of the recent posts again before shooting my mouth off too much, but D3's health is the biggest challenge facing the Romans at the moment, with all the B444 foreshadowing.

Fair enough. Personally, I would prefer D3 to fully complete his reforms, line it up to unleash on his enemies, but die before he can, like Philip III.

D3 is aging fast, but not quite as fast as Andreas II (the lack of war wounds probably helps significantly). but seeing as D3 is probably the most significant character since Andreas Niketas it would be a let down if he goes out with a whimper rather than a bang.

 

[Vasilas]

Fair enough. Personally, I would prefer D3 to fully complete his reforms, line it up to unleash on his enemies, but die before he can, like Philip III.

D3 is aging fast, but not quite as fast as Andreas II (the lack of war wounds probably helps significantly). but seeing as D3 is probably the most significant character since Andreas Niketas it would be a let down if he goes out with a whimper rather than a bang.

I'd like that too-but after the red herring that was Andreas III, Im not holding my breath.

 

[floppy_seal99]

I'd like that too-but after the red herring that was Andreas III, Im not holding my breath.

And how many red herrings in a row will we get? Sure, massive developments like that happening over the course of recorded human history are rare (there's prolly a reason most polities of note only get one b0ss named "The Great") but we are also first and foremost reading a story. A story that for no small portion of its demographic is sort-of wish fulfillment. Shit's gotta give at some point.

 

[Wolttaire]

If you know it then don't suggest it. At this point you're just shitposting.

I knew the idea was far out I just thought to see what u guys think to see if it had any worth to it, that doesn't give you the right to insult me

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Even if something bad happens to D3 I don't think the HRE has the money to carry on the fight another few years unless something drastically changes.

In early 1633 Elizabeth von Wittelsbach wrote:

If the war can be won this year, all will be well.
If the war is not won this year, it is even money between everything holding together and a volcano.
If the war is won next year, it is still even money between everything holding together and a volcano.
If the war is not won next year it will be lost, and then the volcano is inevitable and the only question is how many of us are consumed.

That was written before Blucher's reversals on the Danube and the end of campaigning for the season. The absolute earliest this war can be won from the Allied perspective is 1634 - and it will take a series of massive victories that would make the Roman setbacks of 1632 look like minor skirmishes just to get to Constantinople.

So we're well into the "even money between everything holding together and a volcano" scenario at best for the Allies.

Baring an "Iskander at First Nineveh" level of good luck for the Allies/bad luck for the Romans sustained over a year or more there's no way the Allies can win this war before their economy crashes.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

That was written before Blucher's reversals on the Danube and the end of campaigning for the season. The absolute earliest this war can be won from the Allied perspective is 1634 - and it will take a series of massive victories that would make the Roman setbacks of 1632 look like minor skirmishes just to get to Constantinople.

So we're well into the "even money between everything holding together and a volcano" scenario at best for the Allies.

Baring an "Iskander at First Nineveh" level of good luck for the Allies/bad luck for the Romans sustained over a year or more there's no way the Allies can win this war before their economy crashes.

Excellent. The march for Sideropolis begins, to the Emperor, the spoils.

On a more serious note (I mean, see earlier posts to see what I think D3 should push for in the peace, I got quite jingoistic for the Romans there) that analysis was done before the knowledge on the fiscal state of the HRE, and that could change everything. No money, no army, volcano - means that D3 could probably claim an ultimate victory over the Latins in a single war, which he seems inclined to do, or at least his propaganda speaks that way. Not only could you see the Romans go so far as to take Vienna and the Carpathian Basin, and even Italy if the finances break for the HRE as badly as portrayed, the Roman Emperor may well see the only lasting peace treaty he'd accept is one where the HRE is no longer the HRE, but simply 'Emperor of the Germans' or 'High King of the Germans' in Greek. No King of the Romans, no Holy Roman Emperor, no Holy Roman Empire. I know some poo-hoo the dissolution of the HRE, but no other political force really has the interest in that happening besides the Romans, and I do think this is the war to end that once and for all on current terms, and unlike Napoleon, there is a lasting indignity to resolve, rather than pure posturing.

I don't think the Wittlesbachs survive this war. I'm not sure whoever takes their throne afterwards lasts long either. I think the next lasting dynasty in Germany may well come from whoever can both ally with the Romans as Emperor/High King of the Germans, AND fight off the Triunes, probably with Roman help. Hell, we've already seen traders from Lubeck partner with the Romans in the east - that could very well be the homecity of such a future Princeps Germanicum, and a perfect place to be the heart of a new German Empire that learns from its losses to Constantinople and really goes full-force on economic and fiscal reforms.

 

[HanEmpire]

I knew the idea was far out I just thought to see what u guys think to see if it had any worth to it, that doesn't give you the right to insult me

That's not an insult, it's a statement of fact.

 

[Archangel]

What's the status of other pre-pod religious minorities, like Yazidism, Yarsanism, Mandeans, Zoroastrians and even Shia sects like the Alawites and Alevis?

 

[Wolttaire]

That's not an insult, it's a statement of fact.

Definition Shitposting is posting large amounts of content of "aggressively, ironically, and trollishly poor quality" to an online forum or social network, in some cases intended to derail discussions or otherwise make the site unusable to its regular visitors. None of this was my goal or the effect of it. So not it not a statement of fact.

 

[HanEmpire]

Definition Shitposting is posting large amounts of content of "aggressively, ironically, and trollishly poor quality" to an online forum or social network, in some cases intended to derail discussions or otherwise make the site unusable to its regular visitors. None of this was my goal or the effect of it. So not it not a statement of fact.

You made a string of low-effort posts advocating ethnic genocide, war crimes, and acts of war, all the while using garbage grammar and spelling to clutter up the thread with nonsense only tangentially related to the thread. That fits the definition of shitposting to a T.

As a matter of fact, you seem to be shitposting some more right now. I won't respond to you any longer, so I advise you to stop as well.

 

[Vince]

I don't think the Wittlesbachs survive this war. I'm not sure whoever takes their throne afterwards lasts long either. I think the next lasting dynasty in Germany may well come from whoever can both ally with the Romans as Emperor/High King of the Germans, AND fight off the Triunes, probably with Roman help. Hell, we've already seen traders from Lubeck partner with the Romans in the east - that could very well be the homecity of such a future Princeps Germanicum, and a perfect place to be the heart of a new German Empire that learns from its losses to Constantinople and really goes full-force on economic and fiscal reforms.

The only other option we know of in the HRE who could feasibly do that are the Premyslids of Bohemia and it was noted they already have 20k of their forces tied up in Bulgaria.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Meanwhile the Triunes are just waiting in the wings for a chance to take more of the HRE for themselves. They gotta be loving life right now - their two biggest rivals are bashing each other's heads in while they aren't getting anywhere near as damaged.

 

[TheWanderingReader]

Meanwhile the Triunes are just waiting in the wings for a chance to take more of the HRE for themselves. They gotta be loving life right now - their two biggest rivals are bashing each other's heads in while they aren't getting anywhere near as damaged.

Yes well someone has to fill in the inevitable power gap no?

With that said however, I hope the Triunes get their comeuppance for being so damn arrogant, it may not happen now or in the next few decades but maybe the war ofwrath might have something to do with it. Ody unleashing the fury of his Timurid blood would be a scary thing to behold (Unless of course this is another red herring and Basil just bamboozled us yet again.

Ranjit Singh eh? About time the Sikhs entered into the fray, I was curious if those badass dudes were ever gonna show up.

 

[JohnSmith]

With that said however, I hope the Triunes get their comeuppance for being so damn arrogant, it may not happen now or in the next few decades but maybe the war ofwrath might have something to do with it. Ody unleashing the fury of his Timurid blood would be a scary thing to behold (Unless of course this is another red herring and Basil just bamboozled us yet again.

About that, how come the UKs hasn't had a civil war TTL? The English had many major civil wars OTL (War of the Roses, English Civil War etc). Is there a reason why their Government is so stable TTL?

 

[HanEmpire]

About that, how come the UKs hasn't had a civil war TTL? The English had many major civil wars OTL (War of the Roses, English Civil War etc). Is there a reason why their Government is so stable TTL?

They've been very lucky with their successions and crises so far. No disputes between siblings, no lesser branch lines challenging the main line, no uncertain inheritance, etc. They even adopted Pan-nationalism that encompasse all the kingdoms early and discouraged secessionism. If any of the above happened they were so minor that they didn't even warrant a mention. The biggest crisis was the Arletian invasion of France and even then the Triunes pulled a Great Man out of its ass and fixed everything.

Of course that being said, such stability begets rot in the system by papering over the flaws that'd have been found and fixed in a more turbulent system. Once the Triunes gorge themselves on German lands and get overextended, the cracks will start to show.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Yes well someone has to fill in the inevitable power gap no?

With that said however, I hope the Triunes get their comeuppance for being so damn arrogant, it may not happen now or in the next few decades but maybe the war of wrath might have something to do with it.

The OTL British were pretty damn arrogant and they didn't get their "comeuppance" til after WWII. Sometimes karma works right away, sometimes it takes a few centuries.

 

[Stark]

I am not so sure byzantophiles here should cheer for the downfall of the HRE... Triunes are in much better position to move into Germany in case of collapse and Germany and Rome realistically don't have that much conflict of interest (disregarding Theodor's crazy ambitions).

Triunes are clashing with Romans in the east, not HRE. And Balkans have enough space to clearly delineate Roman and HRE influence.

 

[HanEmpire]

I am not so sure byzantophiles here should cheer for the downfall of the HRE... Triunes are in much better position to move into Germany in case of collapse and Germany and Rome realistically don't have that much conflict of interest (disregarding Theodor's crazy ambitions).

Triunes are clashing with Romans in the east, not HRE. And Balkans have enough space to clearly delineate Roman and HRE influence.

I'm perfectly fine with the Triunes trying to eat Germany. They'll just choke on it when Romanticism and pan-German nationalism comes along.