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I guess I'm alone here in seeing this as this timeline's Patriot Act, except it's the Second Amendment that got destroyed instead of the Fourth and the Supreme Court won't be able to fix it. The Bill of Rights should honestly be considered off-limits to the amendment process.
 
I guess I'm alone here in seeing this as this timeline's Patriot Act, except it's the Second Amendment that got destroyed instead of the Fourth and the Supreme Court won't be able to fix it. The Bill of Rights should honestly be considered off-limits to the amendment process.

Dang it sure didn't take long to find the rough parallel!
 

Big Smoke

Banned
Whoah! That's insane! It's really wierd that the most progressive areas of the country (New England and the Northwest) aren't included, but the country is a lot more progressive than IOTL. But in my honest opinion, its impossible to take away guns in the United States, because people wont just give them away. You need to send armed police into every house and every homestead, it'd be a civil war that the federal government will not be able to push through.
 
Yet another reason why OTL needs to be overwritten by TTL.

Oh yeah except for the genocidal South Africa, the underdeveloped China, the rogue Israel, the troubles, the lack of European integration, French Algeria, an India that is less stable than ours...

China really is the largest problem, the poverty there means that over a billion people live a significantly worse life than IRL.

Still i’d Agree if yiu Swap North America, also I guess the Soviet Union is better than Russia and Germany, being wealthier is a slightly better place than IRL
 
Oh yeah except for the genocidal South Africa, the underdeveloped China, the rogue Israel, the troubles, the lack of European integration, French Algeria, an India that is less stable than ours...

China really is the largest problem, the poverty there means that over a billion people live a significantly worse life than IRL.

Still i’d Agree if yiu Swap North America, also I guess the Soviet Union is better than Russia and Germany, being wealthier is a slightly better place than IRL

I think overall people need to stop saying that one timeline is "better" than another. In either one potentially people are going to be worse off, and things that one person thinks makes the world better someone else would think the opposite.
 
I think overall people need to stop saying that one timeline is "better" than another. In either one potentially people are going to be worse off, and things that one person thinks makes the world better someone else would think the opposite.


Ehh I disagree, if more people, in absolute number, have a better quality of life than in our timeline then you can pretty objectively say that one timeline is better than ours.

Yes that has some loophole, one could imagine a Nazi victory timeline where Europe is devastated and genocided but because of some reason China, the Indian subcontinent quickly reaches northern world level of quality of life within a few decade while south east Asia and most African countries aren’t far behind, then yes 500 million people in Europe live far, *far* worse than IRL but 4 billion everywhere else live a much better life.

I think one could argue this would be an overall better timeline than ours, for mankind as a whole. But I completely understand why a cold and statistical opinion like that could be controversial.
 

Big Smoke

Banned
I would like to see an 'ethnic' map of the world or regions, there are many changes. For example, I think there would be a higher population in Russia and there would be a lot more Russians, or rather, people who self identify as Russians, in the territory of the Soviet Union. Since the Western Ukraine was not annexed, the development of Ukranian nationalism and identity would be seriously hampered resulting in a less rigid and more Russian identity in the Ukraine. The same thing can be said for Belarus, where, I would say, its entirely possible that there would be no Belarussian identity at all, since Western Belarus was never merged. In Central Asia, where national identity is actually rigid due to ethnic and religious differences, I think settlement of both Russians and exiled peoples combines to make a much more diverse central Asia, with a vast majority being primarily Russian speaking and possibly a majority being Russian 'ethnically', most noticeably in Kazakhstan. Of course, we also see more ethnic cleansing by a more lasting communist government. Obviously, the number of Polish in the Eastern territories is far greater, and to be honest I would estimate the proportion of Belarusians and Ukranians a little bit lower than you estimated in the Republic of Poland box.

I want to add, too, that is this by far the best and most well crafted worldbuilding I've ever seen.
 
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Religious Affiliation of New England Prime Ministers
It's early in a new month, and that means Patreon requests are being released! Here's the first one. Throughout the day I will get to everyone's recent comments, I promise!! <3

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Wow that's a lot of Catholics in a row. Since 1940 there have been 18 PMs, and 11 of those have been Catholics. 5 of those 11 have been since 2001.
 

Big Smoke

Banned
I'm also very skeptical of the portrayal of China. While its an interesting take, I simply do not think the extreme destruction Mao (the biggest killer in World History) and socialist economic policy wrought unto China can be not only cancelled out but outdone by 'not caring for rural China'.
 
Oh boy. Hello everyone, I have been watching this thread for a while and decided to join this project.
But since this thread is full of stuff, I am kinda lost. Are you still accepting new users? If yes, how can I help you?
 
Oh boy. Hello everyone, I have been watching this thread for a while and decided to join this project.
But since this thread is full of stuff, I am kinda lost. Are you still accepting new users? If yes, how can I help you?
This is not a collab thread but if you what to help just pm kanan to ask premission before you do anything.
 
Oh, I see. So the amendment had already been introduced, but wasn't widely ratified until after the shooting.

EDIT: @Kanan which states are most steadfastly against the amendment?

The last real holdouts were the western and southeastern states.

What was the other shooting?

A public mall in Pennsylvania.

Soooo... if that's the 32nd amendment, what are the 28th through 31st amendments?

I'm thinking the bigger question is what the 11th through the 31st are. After all, the 14th Amendment banned slavery and the 18th Amendment redistributed land confiscated in the war. The reconstruction amendments are the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, and 18th.

Surprised no one has picked up on that yet :coldsweat:

Whoah! That's insane! It's really wierd that the most progressive areas of the country (New England and the Northwest) aren't included, but the country is a lot more progressive than IOTL. But in my honest opinion, its impossible to take away guns in the United States, because people wont just give them away. You need to send armed police into every house and every homestead, it'd be a civil war that the federal government will not be able to push through.

America's progressiveness is rooted in the Reconstruction era, and has been documented here before. In terms of taking away firearms, the Amendment only explicitly bans the sale and authorises the ownership of shotguns and hunting rifles. Older rifles? Well. Welcome to constitutional grey areas!

I think overall people need to stop saying that one timeline is "better" than another. In either one potentially people are going to be worse off, and things that one person thinks makes the world better someone else would think the opposite.

Essentially what I am going for.

I would like to see an 'ethnic' map of the world or regions, there are many changes. For example, I think there would be a higher population in Russia and there would be a lot more Russians, or rather, people who self identify as Russians, in the territory of the Soviet Union. Since the Western Ukraine was not annexed, the development of Ukranian nationalism and identity would be seriously hampered resulting in a less rigid and more Russian identity in the Ukraine. The same thing can be said for Belarus, where, I would say, its entirely possible that there would be no Belarussian identity at all, since Western Belarus was never merged. In Central Asia, where national identity is actually rigid due to ethnic and religious differences, I think settlement of both Russians and exiled peoples combines to make a much more diverse central Asia, with a vast majority being primarily Russian speaking and possibly a majority being Russian 'ethnically', most noticeably in Kazakhstan. Of course, we also see more ethnic cleansing by a more lasting communist government. Obviously, the number of Polish in the Eastern territories is far greater, and to be honest I would estimate the proportion of Belarusians and Ukranians a little bit lower than you estimated in the Republic of Poland box.

I want to add, too, that is this by far the best and most well crafted worldbuilding I've ever seen.

First off, thank you!! I will definitely try and get an ethnic map done at some point in time. There are a lot of differences! In terms of Poland, it is important to keep in mind that the Polish Communist government was not a puppet of Moscow, it was a co-equal partner to the Soviet Union. In this sense, the Polish communists never stressed a system of "Polification" and ensured there was (limited) recognition and support for minority languages/cultures. This is how Byelorussian and Ukrainian culture live on to this day. As for Russians, they are the majority ethnic group in several SSRs, including Byelorussia, Russia, and the Kazakh SSR. They form a plurality in many others.

I'm also very skeptical of the portrayal of China. While its an interesting take, I simply do not think the extreme destruction Mao (the biggest killer in World History) and socialist economic policy wrought unto China can be not only cancelled out but outdone by 'not caring for rural China'.

It's not really outdone. The human toll was much less (look at China's population), but the economic stagnation was far greater. Without the rapid drop and then fairly decent increase during the post 1950s era in Communist China, KMT China was a modestly socialist state that neglected the needs of rural China and exploited its vast human and natural resources for the betterment of the ruling class and focusing on several cities as bases of power. Only now is China, which is experiencing free market capitalism, seeing broad economic growth which the government is able to re-invest into China's rural regions.

Oh boy. Hello everyone, I have been watching this thread for a while and decided to join this project.
But since this thread is full of stuff, I am kinda lost. Are you still accepting new users? If yes, how can I help you?

Hi! I am always willing to have people drop in and suggest some things and make content for Our Fair Country! I do maintain complete creative control over this timeline, but if you have suggestions on things you'd like to add in please DM me!!
 
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