Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

Crying

Crying

Suvareshkin said:
I feel like you might be misunderstanding my point. I am not saying that Poland should just have conceded before all German demands. I am arguing that instead of heeding abstract notions of economic independence, the delegates at Versailles should have implemented self-determination, allowing those provinces where the populace desired to either remain or become united with Germany to do so, thus preventing much acrimony further down the road.

The Czechs were dealing with a Germany that was already under a radical government whose rise to power was fueled by a sense of anti-German discrimination by the international community, a sentiment rooted in the fact that many territories that desired to be German were severed from their nation. If lands that desired to remain German were given the option to do so, as opposed to being conjoined with a foreign state, one could argue that the rise of the government that made such thuggish demands towards Czechoslovakia would never have manifested in the first place.
Click to expand...
I would argue that's an incredibly simplistic and flawed view of what caused & allowed the Nazis to come to power, but this really isn't the thread for this discussion so please either drop it or move it elsewhere.
 
Clandango

Clandango

Suvareshkin said:
I feel like you might be misunderstanding my point. I am not saying that Poland should just have conceded before all German demands. I am arguing that instead of heeding abstract notions of economic independence, the delegates at Versailles should have implemented self-determination, allowing those provinces where the populace desired to either remain or become united with Germany to do so, thus preventing much acrimony further down the road.
Click to expand...
Germany outright refused to give Poland terms to prevent them from invading in WWII, while after WWI Polish and Madurai's majority areas in southern East Prussia voted for staying in Germany at 95%+ (I think), despite decades upon decades of persecution. Fairly suspicious.
 

Jan Olbracht

Clandango said:
Madurai's majority areas in southern East Prussia voted for staying in Germany at 95%+ (I think), despite decades upon decades of persecution. Fairly suspicious.
Click to expand...
Masurians were not Polish. They considered themselves to be Prussians and were Lutherans (thus were not hit by Kulturkampf) and lived under Hohenzollern's rule since 16th century. Hardly comparable to Posen or Pomerelian Poles (rather they were to Poles like Alsatians to Germans).
 
Last edited:

ninel

Banned
Clandango said:
while after WWI Polish and Madurai's majority areas in southern East Prussia voted for staying in Germany at 95%+ (I think), despite decades upon decades of persecution. Fairly suspicious.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Masurians did genuinely want to remain in Germany, AFAIK mostly because of religious differences (they were Lutheran).
 

Chris S

To help get this thread back on track, I'm going to quote a post I found from this thread concerning a 1939 proposal for a "North Atlantic Union":

Georgius said:
After undertaking some very preliminary research on the subject, I've found one significant pro-union period work: Union Now: A Proposal for a Federal Union of the Democracies of the North Atlantic by Clarence K. Streit (available online). It had the misfortunate of being first published in 1939 and was therefore mostly ignored during World War II, but Streit's work gained surprising currency post-war.

Attached is Streit's map of his envisioned world (using ~1939 borders). He also presents a sample constitution for his North Atlantic Union (see Annex 1).

Are there any thoughts on the plausibility of his proposal?

View attachment 2336
Click to expand...

union_now-2.jpg
 

Chris S

Mr. Bubbles said:
View attachment 375084
Since we're on the topic of World War I, these are the lands that were promised to Bulgaria in addition to those that were lost during the Balkan wars.
Click to expand...

Incidentally, I discovered that increasingly large parts of Serbia were actually occupied by Bulgarian troops under German command during WWII as Germany needed the manpower for the Western and Eastern fronts. This was something the Germans were not keen on due to the potential trouble this would cause among the Serbians.
 
Clandango

Clandango

Iserlohn said:
Grossdeutsches_Reich_Staatliche_Administration_1944.png


Another find, mostly interesting because it shows the de jure situation in Nazi Germany with the Länder still intact, rather than showing just the Reichsgaue. What's super fascinating, and something I only learned today, is that the Kleinwesertal in the Austrian state of Vorarlberg was annexed to Bavaria after the Anschluss in 1938. Also I like how this map also shows stuff like Baden's provinces and the like. Quite the good level of detail.
Click to expand...
I don't suppose you have any idea why Asturias might be colored differently than the other Reichsgau in Austria? Was it that it was one of the 'prime' ones in that administration of both the province and party were completely combined?
 

Wendell

Clandango said:
I don't suppose you have any idea why Asturias might be colored differently than the other Reichsgau in Austria? Was it that it was one of the 'prime' ones in that administration of both the province and party were completely combined?
Click to expand...
Styria. Asturias is in Spain.
 
Drex

Drex

So prior to the war of the Spanish Succession France, England and the United Provinces signed a series of treaties to partition the Spanish Empire in Europe. France would renounce to it's claims to the Spanish throne, but would receive the State of the Presidi, Finale, Naples and Sicily. France would also acquire Lorraine, but the duke of Lorraine would be granted Milan as a compensation and to avoid French influence so close to Austria. Another proposal was that France would relinquish control of Sicily and Naples to Savoy in exchange for Nice and Savoy. The maps show: Europe in OTL 1700. The first partition traty. The second partition traty (concerning Savoy).
upload_2018-12-18_20-42-8.png
 
CHKeeley

CHKeeley

Christory said:
So, this isn't mine but I'd like to show y'all what Kristoffer Barks did in creating extremely well-researched maps for what a German victory in both word wars would look like.
I can't seem to post the images here, so here's the links to his analysis:

https://www.quora.com/What-would-have-happened-if-Germany-had-won-WWI/answer/Kristoffer-Barks-1
https://www.quora.com/What-would-have-happened-if-Germany-had-won-WWII/answer/Kristoffer-Barks-1
Click to expand...

Wow, these are quite well done
 

xmoose

Christory said:
So, this isn't mine but I'd like to show y'all what Kristoffer Barks did in creating extremely well-researched maps for what a German victory in both word wars would look like.
Click to expand...
About western China/eastern Turkestan... I hear that Japanese concerning some Turkestani/Uyghur state which would be ruled by some ottoman prince :evilsmile:
 
XFE

XFE

Christory said:
So, this isn't mine but I'd like to show y'all what Kristoffer Barks did in creating extremely well-researched maps for what a German victory in both word wars would look like.
I can't seem to post the images here, so here's the links to his analysis:

https://www.quora.com/What-would-have-happened-if-Germany-had-won-WWI/answer/Kristoffer-Barks-1
https://www.quora.com/What-would-have-happened-if-Germany-had-won-WWII/answer/Kristoffer-Barks-1
Click to expand...
>Uses a hoi4 basemap
Ew
 
Oliveia

Oliveia

Christory said:
So, this isn't mine but I'd like to show y'all what Kristoffer Barks did in creating extremely well-researched maps for what a German victory in both word wars would look like.
Click to expand...
>Well-researched
>Japanese-owned Australia and New Zealand
Look, I know it's a Complete Axis Win™ but even that is hard to believe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top